Author Topic: Full length sizing issue  (Read 686 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EXGM1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Full length sizing issue
« on: February 12, 2010, 07:40:54 AM »
I am a new reloader...infact first time reloading rifle but have reloaded plenty of pistol...anyway I have Hornady New Dimension .308 dies. I am sizing mil brass. I have the die touching the shell holder and have used one shot lube and sizing the brass and punching out the primers. But the problem is my cases don't look like they are sizing all the way. I placed the brass into a case gauge and it seats flush and the neck is even with the gauge. I have not trimmed the brass yet but I am unable to load an empty case into my bolt action and close the bolt. So what am I missing/doing wrong? My brass is measuring 2.023

Offline stimpylu32

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (67)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6062
  • Gender: Male
Re: Full length sizing issue
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2010, 10:23:17 AM »
First thing your going to have to do is trim the cases , their too long by atleast .018 , as the trim to length for the 308 is 2.005 per the new Lyman manual , as for the dies not sizing all the way , they never do with standard sizing dies  , even small base dies will only size down so far .

Part of the problem may also be the press your using , some are designed to cam over , which means you will have to screw the die down about a 1/16 of a turn past touching to get proper placement of the shoulder .

stimpy
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline shot1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1064
Re: Full length sizing issue
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2010, 10:25:13 AM »
Trim your cases down to 2.005 and see what happens.

Offline EXGM1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: Full length sizing issue
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 11:03:06 AM »
Thanks I'll give that a try. I am using an RCBS Rockchucker press

Offline Steve P

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1733
  • Gender: Male
Re: Full length sizing issue
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 06:46:01 PM »
Did you fire this brass in your gun?  Brass from a semi auto .308 may be over sized and you will need the small base dies.

If you fired these in your gun, you should be able to resize them.  YOU ARE NOT OVER LENGTH at only .018" over trim length.  Trim length is usually .010 under mfg spec to allow you a couple of firings between trimming.  This should NOT keep you from closing  your bolt.  If you were .050" over, then maybe the bolt wont close, or it will close hard.  (Unless you have a match chamber which you don't or you wouldn't have to ask us the question.)

Go to your press.  Unscrew the sizing die about three turns and unlock the lock ring. Screw the lock ring up about two turns.  Pull the press handle down so the ram is all of the way up.  Take your hand OFF the press handle.  Screw your die down until you cannot screw it down any more by hand.  Now, while holding that die with one hand, pull up on your press handle.  You should be able to feel that die move just a little.  This is the little bit of tolerance difference in the threads.  You should also have smooth upswing of the press handle.  Now turn your die down just about 1/16th of a turn. (On my press I watch to see one or two letters in the RCBS printing on top of the die move.)  While still holding that die, push your press handle down.  You should feel the ram touch the die. You should feel the die move a little, and then you should feel that press handle move as it "cams over" at the bottom of the stroke.  You adjust your die down to where that little bit of movement in the die disappears as the press handle cams over.  If you have to FORCE the handle to cam over, you have gone too far.  This is full length sizing!! Screw the lock ring down and lock it.

For my bolt action guns, I screw the die down until it touches the shell holder, then I lock it in place.  I will size the brass and see how it fits in my gun.  If bolt doesn't want to close, I start to adjust the die as referenced above.  ONLY, I don't keep turning die down untl all the slop is gone.  I will turn it down 1/64th of a turn, or 1/32nd of a turn, lock it in place, and size a brass.  I see how the brass fits my chamber and how the bolt closes.  I will adjust the die down sometimes 10 times before I just get that bolt to hit the sweet spot where it locks down with just the slightest hint of hesitation at the very bottom.  If it feels like your bolt is opening and closing super freely on a brass you have previously fired in your gun, you are over sizing it and will work harden the brass and lose case life.  If you do the minimal sizing to get that bolt to close, you will hit optimum sizing for accuracy and brass life for THAT GUN.

Once you get used to adjusting the sizing die, you screw the die down and cam the handle back and forth so fast it just becomes second nature to hit that ultimate setting for full length sizing.  HOWEVER, do not do this setting for a carbide die for pistol brass.  You can crack your carbide insert.  You only want to size enough of your pistol brass to seat the bullet anyway.

Just 2 cents worth of info for a nickel job.

Steve :)
"Life is a play before an audience of One.  When your play is over, will your audience stand and applaude, or stay seated and cry?"  SP 2002

Offline EXGM1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: Full length sizing issue
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2010, 07:03:13 AM »
This Mil brass is from an M14 when I was on active duty. I am reloading for my Savage 10FP and my .308 Garand. I'll give your suggestions a try. Thanks for the help.

Offline gray-wolf

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Re: Full length sizing issue
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2010, 07:37:31 AM »
I would do  little reading up about HEAD SPACE and case head separation.  Also about how to properly bump a shoulder. If the cases were fired form a military rifle ( especially full auto) the case web,
Thats the part down at the bottom near the rim.  Could be expanded, and you may--or may not be able to bring it back down. Perhaps a small base die? perhaps not.
  Yes your bolt should close with just a little bit of effort on properly sized case.
Take the ignition system out of your bolt,( the spring and the fire-ing pin.  This will help get a true feel of what is going on.
  Please keep in mind, that while trying to get a case that is oversize in the web area to seat in your chamber for a nice bolt close, It is very possible to push the shoulder back enough to create a condition of to much head space, and that could be a bad thing for you and your rifle.
  If you continue to have the problem I would try and think about why. 
A, head space gage might not be a bad Idea. it is a simple tool that will tell you if the shoulder is within the limits for a Factory chamber.
  I will bet that when you feel resistance from the press ram against the case on the sizing stroke,
you are bumping the shoulder. It happens often, not a bad thing if that's what you are trying to do.
  If you do get the cases to chamber you can check the head space.
This is not the best way But a down and dirty way to check your head space is to take a piece of masking tape ( about .004 ) and put it on the back of your case on the case head.
Trim it nice all around and chamber the round, if the bolt closes easily on it there could be excess head
space.
 Again it is not the best way but an idea of what is going on.

GW.

Offline Dave in WV

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2162
Re: Full length sizing issue
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2010, 06:44:00 AM »
EXGM1, let us know how it works out.
Setting an example is not the main means of influencing others; it is the only means
--Albert Einstein

Offline EXGM1

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: Full length sizing issue
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2010, 10:07:13 AM »
So after trying to incorporate some suggestions and ending up with the same results...I sent my dies to a friend who has been reloading for over 30 years. He also has the same Hornady New Dimension dies as I do. I sent him some of my brass and he tried my dies. They did not work in his rifles or gauges either. I called Hornady and they are replacing my dies. Apparently my dies were cut incorrectly. Honestly I would never have thought the dies were the issue. I was getting frustrated because I knew I was not cutting corners or skipping steps. I was getting headaches from bumping my head off of the wall! Thank you everyone for your help, I really appreciate your suggestions! :)

Offline stimpylu32

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (67)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6062
  • Gender: Male
Re: Full length sizing issue
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2010, 10:38:51 AM »
So after trying to incorporate some suggestions and ending up with the same results...I sent my dies to a friend who has been reloading for over 30 years. He also has the same Hornady New Dimension dies as I do. I sent him some of my brass and he tried my dies. They did not work in his rifles or gauges either. I called Hornady and they are replacing my dies. Apparently my dies were cut incorrectly. Honestly I would never have thought the dies were the issue. I was getting frustrated because I knew I was not cutting corners or skipping steps. I was getting headaches from bumping my head off of the wall! Thank you everyone for your help, I really appreciate your suggestions! :)

Welcome to the sometimes " What the XXXX " world of handloading , you have just learned a major lesson , if the first thing doesn't work , check everything else .  ???

stimpy
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped