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Offline 8iowa

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Origin of in-line rifle
« on: February 21, 2010, 02:05:05 PM »
I, and perhaps many others, have often heard that the in-line rifle is not a modern design. Yet, for many years I have attended one of the largest antique arms shows in the country, and I have never seen any type of muzzleloading rifle that even closely resembles having an in-line action. The closest I can find is some of the Civil War carbines. However they were designed to load from the breech, and used various types of cartridges.

Fladerman's "Guide to Antique American Arms", perhaps the most read publication in the antique arms field, shows nothing that remotely resembles an in-line rifle. You'll search in vain in other books as well.

So, I can only conclude that the in-line rifle is strictly modern, unless someone here has facts that prove otherwise.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2010, 02:14:35 PM »
As far as I know, Tony Knight invented the in line in 1985.  Like you, I've never seen anything to show otherwise.  The drop breech Sharps, etc. were paper cartridge and certainly not "muzzle" loaders. 
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Offline flintlock

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2010, 03:22:03 PM »
I've seen pictures of an inline flintlock from the 1700s...If  I get a chance this week I'll see if I can track it down for you...
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Offline Swampman

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2010, 03:28:00 PM »
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Offline flintlock

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2010, 03:43:22 PM »
Thanks Swampy...:)
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Offline sabotloader

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2010, 05:18:09 PM »
8iowa

Lewis and Clark expedition some inlines with them as well as air guns...
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Offline Busta

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2010, 06:41:18 PM »
Here is another good read from Doc White. Tony Knight was far from the first to make an inline, even a modern inline, he was just the most fortunate at the time he introduced his design. The buying public was ready to use them once the states started allowing the use of saboted bullets. Alex Hamilton of Ten Ring made a pull-cock action inline in 1969. I also know of other inlines made by individuals as far back as 1969. H&R made a Huntsman inline from 1973 to 1979 in .45 cal, .58 cal, and 12 ga.

http://www.whitemuzzleloading.com/history_muzzleloading.htm

If you go down toward the bottom of the above link you will see that Dan Kurkowski Michigan Arms Corp made a Wolverine inline back in 1979. This rifle use a 209 primer for ignition. See pics below, read the story in Doc's link above.

This is what is known as the Michigan Arms Corp "Wolverine", 1979.

This one has a walnut stock and is MINT!










This one is in rock hard maple and is used.










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Offline DennyRoark

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2010, 02:31:36 AM »
Had a friend who had a break open in the late 70's, maybe early 80's, that used a #11 cap and I thought it was an H&R Topper frame.  I was amazed by this as I was just getting interested in ML's and had only seen repro rifles.
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Offline longcaribiner

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2010, 04:38:41 AM »
The Wurfflein family of Gun smiths in Philadelphia, made a few box lock inlines in the mid 1800's.  There were a few other early designs.  The original bolt action design was developed around 1830.  However, instead of muzzleloading, the inventor wanted to develop a faster firing beech loader, and came up with the needle fire breech loader. 
I have an in-line that was built by an Annapolis MD gun smith in the early 1960's. 
I have seem a straight line plunger type rifle, of unknown origina that used a spring loadedd rod that was pulled back into the butt stock and   the trigger engaged a notch in the rod.  The nipple was screwed into the breech and when the trigger was pulled, the road slammed forwardd into the percussion cap on the nipple. 
If you consider a box lock percussion gun as an in-line, the the early colt revolvers were an in-line.   
I also have a 32 cal in-line that was built on a 22 rf rifle action.  Factory made that way in the early 1980's. 
My uncle had a 32 cal rifle that had a dropping block, that could be loaded through the muzzle in the normal way, or could be loaded through the breech with a ball and loose powder & a percussion cap carrier.   The action was identical to a Hopkins and Allen 22 rf take down rifle that my dad had.     
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2010, 09:36:49 AM »
Quote from: longcaribiner on February 22, 2010, 04:38:41 AM
 
I have seem a straight line plunger type rifle, of unknown origina that used a spring loadedd rod that was pulled back into the butt stock and   the trigger engaged a notch in the rod.  The nipple was screwed into the breech and when the trigger was pulled, the road slammed forwardd into the percussion cap on the nipple. 

Around here we call those "Pinball Action Guns". There were quite a few of them made in the 70s by guys who built them out in the garage. They were cheap, simple, and reliable.
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Offline longcaribiner

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2010, 11:11:57 AM »
The pin ball style you mentioned.  The gun I saw was obviously very old.  I saw it in the early 1980's and it was probably 100 yrs old then. 
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2010, 12:27:40 PM »
Gun Digest in the mid 90's had an article about the history of the inline. Only about 200-300 years old.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2010, 12:31:48 PM »
I guess a guy is never through learning.  Thanks to all posters for the info, even though it is not my post, it is very informative.....
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Offline wreckhog

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2010, 04:18:41 PM »
1996 Gun Digest, p 177 The In-Line Muzzleloader in History by Doc Carlson

Precedes the percussion cap. There are flint inlines (existing in museum collections), dating to about 1730-1740.
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Offline mcgiiver

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2010, 03:47:17 AM »
Quote from: mechanic on February 21, 2010, 02:14:35 PM
As far as I know, Tony Knight invented the in line in 1985.  Like you, I've never seen anything to show otherwise.  The drop breech Sharps, etc. were paper cartridge and certainly not "muzzle" loaders. 

Not true, numerous inlines existed before Knight, including the H & R Huntsmans around 1977. Knight only succeeded in messing up the inlines with that ridiculous screw knob at the back of the bolt.
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Offline sabotloader

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2010, 04:27:33 AM »
mcgiiver

Quote
Not true, numerous inlines existed before Knight, including the H & R Huntsmans around 1977.

True

Quote
Knight only succeeded in messing up the inlines with that ridiculous screw knob at the back of the bolt.

Not True,  The secondary safety is a good feature.  It can be used when getting up and down from tree stands or any other place that you want to insure that an accidental discharge does not occur. 
Granted it is only used on a rare occasion but when the added safety is needed it is nice to have the added safety...
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Offline Busta

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Re: Origin of in-line rifle
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2010, 08:57:06 AM »
I am not a fan of the secondary screw safety on the Knights either, the White design is much better. The White secondary safety designs lock the bolt/firing pins back and do not allow any forward travel, until the secondary safety is taken off. Knight bolts/firing pins still have forward travel and that loud clank to remind you that the safety is still on. Game usually don't hang around long after hearing that. ;D On the Whites, if you forgot your trigger will travel, but the bolts/firing pins do not have any forward travel, and no noise is made to scare off game. ;)

Sabotloader,

If I am going in and out of a treestand, or navigating rough/vertical terrain, the best safety feature to prevent a AD is removing the primer. I have seen a couple rifles where the screw type safety broke off. There have been several different variants of that screw type safety over the years, some worse than others.

My 2 cents.
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