Mini 14 vs- AR15

[lrs]

I don't know much about either gun.
I do own a mini-14, one of the newer series, in .223
It has a synthetic stock, and a stainless receiver and barrrel.
I have a scope on it. 
This gun shoots about 4 inch groups, whith what little I have shot it.
I bought a couple of hi-capacity rounds for it, neither worked well.
I have since learned you almost HAVE to use factory magazines
I don't like the magazine release.  If you are using the 5 round magazine it came with, the magazine release is in a perfect location to accidentally press it.
Still, the mini14 has a very loyal following, which would not exist if this were a piece of crap.
Is the AR15 any better as a factory rifle.
I take a hand to hand combat course, the instructor is fond of the M4's, if I heard him right S&W makes a good M4, but that was discussing select fire weapons.
I'm trying to decide whether to keep the 14, or get rid of it before I put any more money into it, and go with an AR15 type.

[Hairtrigger]

Love what you have. Nothing is more reliable than the Mini-14.
AR's do tend to be more accurate, I own both, To me, the best of both worlds is a Mini-14 that has aftermarket accurizing and barrel which will shoot as well as most AR's

[prairiedog555]

There are some simple add on cheap fixes for mini 14.  I took mine from 4"moa to 1" for $30.
There is a forum "Perfect Union" that deals with mini 14.  Believe me, it works. 
I cut my groups 1/2 by installing a $10 flash hider.  The rest of the group reduction was from bolt on tri rails that stiffen the barrel.

[R.W.Dale]

Over on THR I have a standing challange where I'll send the first ruger mini 14 shooter 2 boxes of ammo if they can shoot 2 groups that average under 2.5" in 3 minutes using irons. Please feel free to take part.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=485140

 A month in and the prize remains unclaimed

[dougk]

It comes down to what your doing with the rifle.

The mini-14 is a nice low maintenance gun.  The M4 is very accurate but requires a fair amount of lubrication.

Doug

[sillasr]

Have several ARs and three Minis 1 Target, 1 GB stainless model 186 series and a the new Tactical. The GB and Tactical one are great carry around rifles, te Target model is a MOA rifle with one type of ammo until barrel heats up and it throws one. But use the Mini for what it was made for, my ARs for for a certain things, one in my patrol unit, one for HD, one for praire dogs, etc.... but for coyoyes any of my minis will do out to 150 175 yards and when hunting rolling hills where shots will be out to 350 - 400 my target model is with me. Just understand what both rifles are for but don't think I would be undergunned in any situtation with a mini, 1 rode with me for years untill I bought an AR so I could have the COOL factor, and it would fit in the rack in unit.

[dwalk]

if you're looking for tack driving accuracy from a mini (or an AR for that matter) better be prepared to open the wallet.

i had a mini-14 quite a while back and it was very rugged, dependable easy to operate and maintain, but not very accurate. as i recall 3" groups at 100 yards was about the best i could get; that's about what's to be expected for a rifle like the mini-14, though.

as a SHTF rifle in it's standard form, it'll meet the need.

when I'm looking to drill a wylie...i look to the 22-250, rem 700 or H&R Ultra Varmint .223...tack drivers.

JMO...

[matdailey89]

I have a mini 14 target and I love it. It is VERY accurate and reliable, however considerably heavier than the ranch model mini 14 or an AR.  AR will be my next purchase, but the target model is great.

[Oldshooter]

This thread is deja vu, all over again! 

[DC]

Yes, it is an oft repeated topic but fun anyway.  I bought Mini / Target / Lam. stock.  I mounted it with a Weaver Varmit Grand Slam.  After fiddleing with the barrel damper I am shooting MOA and under with good ammo. 
I am seriously considering taking up the challenge on shooting the groups. 
One thing to note is that because the laminated stock does not become lower after the reciever, using xhigh rings is must.

[Oldshooter]

I am seriously considering taking up the challenge on shooting the groups.

Keep in mind that challenge is with iron sights not scope! 

[DC]

Oops, my bad.  Unfortunetly, the Mini 14 target doesn't have iron sights.  On second thought, why not a scope?  After all, if it is the accuracy of the rifle that is in question, what difference would the sights make.  Iron sights at 100 yards makes the skill of the shooter paramount, not to mention his or her eyesight.  If the bet is the rifle won't shoot the groups then it shouldn't matter, should it?

[SHOOTALL]

Why is it important to shoot 1 inch groups with a battle rifle ? If you want a target rifle get one or have a battle rifle rebuilt into one . If you want a battle rifle and it shoots 4 inchs at 100 yards and you aim center of attacker at 100 yards you should hit just fine . And if you miss don't blame it on the rifle .

[Lloyd Smale]

in a self defense rifle it probably isnt important as a civlian is never going to shoot someone past a 100 yards anyway. In a survial situation your about allways better off hiding then shooting and if someone is 200 yards away its best to let them pass. In a combat situation accuracy can be very important. Ranges can eaisly extend out to 300 plus yards. Its also a very distinct possiblity that you may have to thread a bullet through brush or a hole to hit your target even under a 100 yards and the tighter group you can shoot the better off you are. I wouldnt want to go into battle with a 4moa rifle against enemys with 1 moa guns. There is also alot of differnce in just hitting man at a 100 yards and hitting him exactly where you want to. Contrary to what you see in the movies every bad guy hit in the body with a rifle doesnt fly off there feet and get driven into the ground dead. It takes a central nervous system hit to reliably take someone out of fight.

Why is it important to shoot 1 inch groups with a battle rifle ? If you want a target rifle get one or have a battle rifle rebuilt into one . If you want a battle rifle and it shoots 4 inchs at 100 yards and you aim center of attacker at 100 yards you should hit just fine . And if you miss don't blame it on the rifle .

[DC]

I think it is as much, if not more, the person behind the rifle.  While I can't say I have any experience, I imagine that in combat the shooter that can remain calm, aim and squeeze will be more deadly no matter what MOA his weapon is capable of.

[SHOOTALL]

I don't know many who can shoot 1 inch groups  at 300 yards with open sights . But i do know many who can hit a target the size of a mans chest at that distance with open sights all day long . I do understand your reffrence to not all hit with rifle fire not falling down dead but i assume you are talking full metal jacket ammo . It seems that shootings involving hunting ammo have a much better kill score , in the 90% range if hit in the chest area . You can check the FBI stats on that its been some time since i saw it .

[Lloyd Smale]

open sighted combat weapons are getting to be the exception rather then the norm. Yes i was refering to ball ammo but even a marginal hit with expanding ammo wont kill well. It takes a long time to blead to death and someone can shoot back quite a while waiting to die. \

DC one thing to keep in mind is if your shook up and can only hold sights in say a 4 inch circle with a 1moa gun that means a bullet will be within 5 inchs of aim and a 4moa gun can be off as much as 8 inchs. I convinced many guys shooting comp with handguns to do bench work with there guns. Many would just show up with factory ammo. They would wonder why i outshot them all the time. When your shooting at a 2 inch bullseye at 25 yards with a gun that shoots 2 inch groups a good number of your shots are going to be out of the black just because your gun isnt accurate enough

[SHOOTALL]

Only thing about optics is how long they survive . At some point you may need those iron sights . A bad hit is a bad hit , like i pointed out a chest hit is a deadly hit with hunting ammo. Shooting in a survival situation is a bad thing to do other than a last ditch effort to stay alive . You may get the target but you may also bring in more than you can deal with . I agree with not being 100% and offered in another topic that a shotgun would be best in situatios like that . You have very valid points but not all cases are the same , as what i pointed out fits only some cases. It brings out the importance of forming a group with varried hardware ( guns being only a small part)at such times .
The other problem is repair in the field with whats at hand . Complicated would lose out here I fear.

[fatercat]

you  believe this. you hit a man in the chest with 223 ball there ain't much fight left in him. you just gonna shoot one time?? shoot till he is down.

[mechanic]

A good friend of mine was wanting a highly dependable 223 that was low maintenance and easy to handle.  Super accuracy was not on his list.  The bottom of a 5 gal. bucket was good enough he said.  I recommended the Ruger.  The AR's and variants do take more maintenance, and around here cost a lot more....double.  He is well pleased with his purchase, and yesterday I made him a present of some 30 rnd. mags I've had for years...since I sold my Ruger. 

[Lloyd Smale]

My ars have either aimpoints or trijicons on them. there battle tested sights. I saw a show on tv where two guys stood about 10 yards apart on a concrete parking lot and bounced them back and forth to each other and put them back on the guns and they held zero. That and a 5 year left on battery life makes a pretty reliable sight. Probably more rugged then alot of the open sights on battle rifles. Trijicon acogs seem to be as reliable as the aimpoints. For scopes most military scope use is leupold and they proven to be about the most reliable scope made. Just look at most dangerous game guns and you will see a leupold on them. Now if your the type that buys tasco scopes or 50 dollar dot sights id have to agree with you that your better off with open sights. If your a real worry wort its easy to set them up with buis. Ive got them on a few guns but to be honest there probably not needed and are more of a decoration then anything. You can argue with me till your blue in the face about accuracy but ive never seen EVER in any circumstance where a inaccurate rifle was a benifit over one that shot groups twice as good. A mini with open sights is sure better then a stick but if crap even did hit the fan i want a reiliable precise gun that has sights that work not only in good light but in low light inside and outside and can be left on all the time. Fumbling around in the dark trying to turn on a sight under stress just isnt a good idea. Home defense is another subject and there are loaded ars in my house but the gun nearest to the bed is a 12 guage pump loaded with 00 buck with a tatical light on it. Not much more deadly or reliable or user freindly for close quarters defense work.

Only thing about optics is how long they survive . At some point you may need those iron sights . A bad hit is a bad hit , like i pointed out a chest hit is a deadly hit with hunting ammo. Shooting in a survival situation is a bad thing to do other than a last ditch effort to stay alive . You may get the target but you may also bring in more than you can deal with . I agree with not being 100% and offered in another topic that a shotgun would be best in situatios like that . You have very valid points but not all cases are the same , as what i pointed out fits only some cases. It brings out the importance of forming a group with varried hardware ( guns being only a small part)at such times .
The other problem is repair in the field with whats at hand . Complicated would lose out here I fear.

[SHOOTALL]

I have seen stuff like that also but you and i both know battires go dead at the worst time and STUFF happens .
 What the U S Army uses is backed by the best supply and repair chain in existance as a person in a survival situation we may not have it so good .

[Lloyd Smale]

double

[Lloyd Smale]

I figure with AT LEAST a 5 year battery life and the spares i keep on each gun that im good for at least 10 years. I doubt anyone will live for 10 years in a survial situation anyway. youll be lucky (or maybe not) if you last a year. If the stars align and im still around in 10 years and my batterys are dead and theres none to be found Ill just pop them off throw them away and use the back up sights and be in the same place as someone who never had optics. Keep in mind to that the aimpoints battery life is 5 plus years left on continusly. If in a survival situation thats going to last years a guy has the presents of mind to turn them off when not in use theyd probably last for the rest of your life. You need to keep in mind that were not in the army. Were not going to be subjecting equiptment to battle every day and we are not dependent on some lazy privite in supply to get us batterys. I do it myself and allways have a battery stash by my ars that i can grab if i ever have to bug out fast. Unlike the army the only one i have to blame if i dont have the proper supplys to survive is myself.

[SHOOTALL]