Honady .458 FTX construction?

[silver surfer]

  Morning All,
    I finally got around to getting a hold of some "Gummy Bullets" and new brass for the BC.  (To be frank, a great friend snagged some for me on his last trip to Cabela's.  Thanks Doug! )  Back to the subject, while looking for load data on these critters the Hornady sight lists 2150 (or so) as the max fps .  My question is, is that because of bullet construction or public liability concerns?

  I want to get these bullets into the 22-2300 fps range, but if they wont tolerate that or cause to much meat damage I'll have to alter my plans some.  Any experiences in reloading these would be helpful also.  Next week I start spring break so I'll have some time to play, my fingers are just itching to get some range time and fishing done!

[knight0334]

Probably because of bullet construction.  

Some of the 300gr JHP's that I bore out to make lighter frag like a varmint grenade at 2400fps to 2800fps.   But the slower they get in range, the less they 'nade.  I've had unmodded 300gr JHP's pass right through a buck and didn't open up (hit at 30ft at 1800fps). Which, would be the reason Hornady recommends speeds less than 21-2200fps.   They designed it so it would reliable expand, which requires a thinner jacket.

[JW307]

Keep in mind that Hornady's reload data for the FTX bullets is for Marlin 1895 actions, which can't take the same amount of pressure as a Ruger or H&R.  You will also notice that the trim length they list is considerably shorter.  I would imagine the max loads in the Hornady data are governed more by the 1895 action than bullet construction.

Jake

[243wright]

The 450 marlin is loaded to 2225 fps according to hornadys websight and its a 325 gr FTX® LEVERevolution bullet. I would sure think its the same bullet that you have. If your worried about it load a few up to 2300 and shoot a phone book or something and you can be the judge of how well they hold together. I would sure think theyd be ok but I do not know.

[quickdtoo]

The .458" FTX was developed for the Marlin XLR,  list no load level for modern rifles, even the 450 Marlin is limited to 2225fps in their ammo, load data is only 2100fps. Give Hornady a call, they'll tell you up front it's not made for higher velocities. http://www.hornady.com/contact_us

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/support/downloads/load-data

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ftx_load_data/450_marlin_ftx.pdf

[Mac11700]

IMHO...unless you are putting this right against the deers shoulder and pulling the trigger..I wouldn't worry about running them at 2300 fps..These bullets are a lot tougher than they are being credited with.The original factory loading on these were much higher than what they are now by a couple hundred fps. and I took a nice buck with one of them a couple years ago and there was no over expansion at all with it out of a longer barrel gun.. Most big game bullets of Hornady don't over expand quite as easily as some other companies do..You can always load up some good Cast Performance WLNGC's and never have that worry again..

Mac

[JerryKo]

I did some testing on wet paper at 50 yds and about 2200fps.  The bullet came apart pretty bad nit the effect was impressive.   The thread is herehttp://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,164522.0.html

I know deer aren't as tuff as a box of wet paper.

Jerry

[Mac11700]

I saw that Jerry..nice report BTW...but to me dry stacked paper is about as good as shooting into a sand bar to determine how well a bullet will expand on a deer. I talked with several folks and seen quite a few deer that have been shot with them from all ranges to know they aren't over expanding real easy. Maybe the difference is in the various lots of them from when they first come out till now..Can't say..but I will test some of the new ones against some of the old ones I have access to once I have my 45-70 barrel here..I will be real interested in it as well as a few folks I know using them in their Marlins..

Mac

[JerryKo]

I know what you mean Mac.   That's why I shot a know deer killer into the box too for comparison.   The paper was wetted down, but not soaked and loose.  I'm also sure they will drop deer well.

Jerry

[quickdtoo]

Factory LE 45-70 ammo is rated at 2050fps, the slower stuff was 1850fps when they ran out of their proprietary powder soon after their release, they do a little over 2000fps in a 24" SS Ultra, about the same as they do in the 24" XLR.

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/45-70-Government-325-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/

[quickdtoo]

I just talked to Lonny at Hornady, he recommends using their 350gr 45-70 Ruger data for the 325gr FTX, but cautioned me on close range performance being devastating, he used the term "grenade"  , at a muzzle velocity approaching 2300fps.

Tim

[quickdtoo]

I found a couple reports at MO for the 450M LE ammo which look promising, no actual muzzle velocities tho. 

Tim

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,58103.msg559089.html#msg559089

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,61028.msg591749.html#msg591749

[silver surfer]

Wow!  This seems to have generated some genuine interest!  Thanks for all the feedback everyone.  I'm interested (primarily) @ impact velocities.  The faster I can get it there the more Umphhh it'll have when it arrives.  Some of the shots I (may ) get are over 200 yards and I'd like a bullet that shoots a tad bit flatter than the Rem 300 grn HP.  This may sound a bit over kill for some of y'all but down here in "Booger's Swamp" you don't want to blood trail game far.  All the water and jungle vegetation makes finding game extra difficult; and yes, I do pass up shots on game I may not recover.  This is one of the reasons I'm curious about these bullets, another reason is meat damage.  I'd like to limit that as much as is possible while retaining the "Bang, flop" factor.
  Thank you all for all the interest.

[xhare]

One of the things to remember about just about all of the plastic tipped bullets is that they are essentially hollowpoints.  The plastic point fits in a hollow section.  Upon impact the hollow section acts like a normal hollowpoint bullet.  How fast it opens up depends on jacket construction, general toughness, etc. 

[Mac11700]

Wow!  This seems to have generated some genuine interest!  Thanks for all the feedback everyone.  I'm interested (primarily) @ impact velocities.  The faster I can get it there the more Umphhh it'll have when it arrives.  Some of the shots I (may ) get are over 200 yards and I'd like a bullet that shoots a tad bit flatter than the Rem 300 grn HP.  This may sound a bit over kill for some of y'all but down here in "Booger's Swamp" you don't want to blood trail game far.  All the water and jungle vegetation makes finding game extra difficult; and yes, I do pass up shots on game I may not recover.  This is one of the reasons I'm curious about these bullets, another reason is meat damage.  I'd like to limit that as much as is possible while retaining the "Bang, flop" factor.
  Thank you all for all the interest.

I don't have a problem with shots over 200 yards..but you best know how to dope the wind with those big old slugs real well...at 200 yards out of my XLR and a 10-15 mph cross wind you will wind up hitting it in the rump when aiming at the shoulder..and even further off at 250 yards..those ballistic tables don't always work out like they say they do..so try it first...

My advise..for anything over 180 yards...use a different caliber..There are many that will do a better job at longer ranges..

Mac

[AtlLaw]

The .458" FTX ... they'll tell you up front it's not made for higher velocities.

Will it expand at lower velocities?  Like 1100 fps?     Does anybody know the suggested velocity range?  Heck, let me just trundle off to Hornady, as I remember thay are pretty good about posting such info!   

[Mac11700]

The .458" FTX ... they'll tell you up front it's not made for higher velocities.

Will it expand at lower velocities?  Like 1100 fps?     Does anybody know the suggested velocity range?  Heck, let me just trundle off to Hornady, as I remember thay are pretty good about posting such info!   

I wouldn't trust it to expand fully at that velocity unless you hit solid bone with it..I am sure you will get some expansion,and at almost 1/2" to start it will depend on what your shooting if you want more..

Mac