Brass Sizing Question?

[HGHunter]

I have a question about whether it is better to full length size or just neck size my .308 brass once fired in my rifle?  Is one preffered over the other?  My application is going to be for hunting PA whitetails with 150 grain Sierra PSPBT using Varget powder.

Thanks

[PA-Joe]

If you only have one 308 most people would say to neck size only. You can do this with a full length sizer that is set several turns high so that it only does the neck. I full length size all my cases but my family has three 7mm08s.

[PaulS]

I only size the firsy 2/3 of the necks on my 3006 for all purposes. I use them only in the rifle they were first fired in. I Do take the extra time to make sure that all the rounds chamber before I head out hunting. I ran into a problem with insufficient lube on the expanding plud that pulled some of the shoulders forward once and nearly ruined a hunt.

PaulS

[Iowegan]

For bolt action and single shot rifles, neck sizing will work fine assuming the cartridges are fired in the same gun. For semi-autos, lever, and pump actions, I would still full length resize, else chambering might give you problems.

I did some testing with several of my own bolt guns...neck sizing vs full length. In my 22-250, 7mm-08, 223, and 7X57 I couldn't see enough difference in group size to make a case for either. Now I just full length size everything and I'm still getting excellent groups. I experenced some "hard to chamber" rounds when I neck sized so that problem has gone away.

I anneal my rifle cases every-other firing. This keeps the shoulder-to-mouth area soft so it seals better and minimizes bullet jump damage to bullets. Annealing has made a significant difference in my groups with all my rifles.

[HGHunter]

What is annealing?

[ButlerFord45]

HG, as cartridges are fired and the brass case is resized for reloading repeatedly, the brass starts to get hard from being worked.  This is not a good thing for reloading.  Hardened cases do not size as well, have erattic tension on the bullet, start splitting and probably a few other things that defeat all the work in trying to reload accurate ammunition.  This problem can be fixed sometimes by the process of heating the neck and sholder of the brass and quickly quinching in water.  This process called annealing softens the working portion of the brass case.

[razmuz]

Bench shooters neck size which may or may not help accuracy for a patricular rifle.  Why take the chance when deer hunting.  Some say neck sizing will make your brass last for a couple more loadings if that's what your after.

[Iowegan]

There are three areas where brass cases wear out. The primer pocket, the area where the solid head meets the case wall, and the case mouth. Of the three, the case mouth usually shows up first with splits. Annealing keeps the mouth soft so it will last much longer. Neck sizing works the neck and mouth, the same "weak" area as full length sizing. I haven't seen much difference in case life between full and neck sizing.  Annealing does extend case life a few more reloads, but the real reason I do it is for accuracy.

To anneal rifle cases:
1.  Pour an inch of cold water in a shallow pan (cake pans work well).
2.  Stand the depirmed rifle cases upright in the water.
3.  Use a propane torch and heat up the case from shoulder to mouth.
4.  When the case is hot, tip it over in the water.  A good “schhh” sound and a slight pink color should be noted.
5.  Dry the cases thoroughly then size and load.

[HGHunter]

How frequently do you anneal the cases?  If it helps accuracy and consistent groups I will do it.

Thanks

[Dand]

Its been my impression that annealing isn't really needed unless you fire the cases many times or if you have to do some case reforming - like making wildcat ammo.  I've never annealed my cases and some of them get reloaded 10 -12 times before discarding - huh maybe I should trie it for some of my really old brass.  Now if I was seeing case neck splitting etc in 3-5 loads I might consider annealing - or going to a different load.  For hunting ammo that might be loaded an fired only a few times I don't see the need for annealing.  And for my hunting ammo I try to cycle in new brass fairly often to avoid other potential problems in the field.  I keep the oldest stuff for practice and test loads.

I subscribe to Ken Waters' partial full length resizing. I don't let the case go fully into the size die - keep it just short of the thickness of a dime or so depending on cartridge, length of neck and quality of the gun's chamber.  I try to make sure the die isn't setting back the shoulder.  If you have a tight chambered  semi auto you may need to full length size or even use a small base size die to assure proper functioning.

[razmuz]

You know annealing has no benifit except to let you keep your brass a little longer.  It may even hurt accuracy a little, just another variable you don't have to fool with nowdays.  Old timers did it because they couldn't get brass or were using some exotic caliber.  Get 500 cases from Midway and never worry about it again.

[Iowegan]

Those of us that take reloading serious don't mind doing a few extra steps if it will improve accuracy and maybe have a few more side benefits. Annealing is one of those things. Besides extended case life, the soft shoulder and mouth form to the chamber when fired and make a good seal. That means your cases don't soot up and you don't ever get collapsed shoulders.

Most shooters don’t know and probably don’t care what happens inside the chamber when a round is touched off but I’ll tell you anyway.  When the pressure inside the case reaches a certain point, the bullet is forced out and strikes the bore. This always causes the bullet to suffer some damage, especially if it strikes the bore ever so slightly off center. When the bullet has damage on one side, it will wobble as it is going down range. The more damage, the more it wobbles and the less accurate it will be.

The idea is to do things to the case so the bullet will enter the bore as straight as possible with minimal damage. Many bench rest shooters neck turn their cases so they are perfectly centered. This works quite well but is not necessary if you anneal. When the case mouth and neck are soft, the bullet is pushed from the case before the pressure builds too high. This makes the bullet strike the bore more gently and reduces bullet strike damage. At the same time, the case puffs up into the chamber and releases the bullet straight on with the bore. Combine annealing with bullets that are seated out to within .010 of the rifling and you have minimized bullet jump damage.  Most guns will see a dramatic increase in accuracy with annealing and proper bullet seating depth.

Ever look at new factory brass, especially RP or Lapua brass? The case shoulder to mouth is discolored and has a pink hue. That's because they are annealed at the factory. Winchester, Starline and others do this too but they tumble their brass afterwards so it isn't as evident. I've found that annealing every 2nd firing keeps the brass soft enough. After 3 shots, and 3 sizings, it's probably as hard as it will get.
 
Many guns have excessive free bore. This is the area in the chamber that is an extension of the case neck. Free bore is slightly larger in diameter than the neck of a loaded round. You can measure the diameter of a spent case neck and will come close to your rifles actual free bore diameter.  Most free bores are at least .025 larger in diameter than the bullet diameter. Additionally, the free bore is usually drilled too deep. In all, the free bore gives the bullet an opportunity to wander off center on its way to the rifled bore. If you trim your cases to SAAMI specs, they will almost certainly be too short. This also causes bullet strike damage.  With annealed cases, they will “grow” a little and fill in the excessive free bore. I trim cases to “square up” the case mouth. This makes the bullet release more uniform, almost like the crown on a barrel.

I use a set of chamber tools that measure the precise chamber depth, then trim my cases to the optimum length. I also use a bullet seating depth tool to measure for optimum bullet seating depth.  If your gun shoots good groups, don’t bother. If you want to really improve accuracy, try annealing, bullet seating depth, and case length control. A few more steps, but well worth it to me.  See: http://www.cactustactical.com/reloading/reloading.html

[razmuz]

HGHUNTER just wants to go deer hunting.  By reading these last few commits one would think your talking about international target competition.  The longer I reload the more equiptment and steps I find aren't needed.  If your rifle is sound basic elementary reloading is all that's necessary.  Keep in mind that there are some folks out there that like to trim brass.  If you fall in that bracket, go for it.  PS  don't let them talk you into buying a trickler, spoons and fingers work better.

[The Shrink]

Razmuz, I agree in this case, but what Iowegan is explaining may salvage a hunting rifle that someone else just can't get to shoot.  In that case it may be worth the extra steps.  Especially if you got the rifle cheap!

BTW, if you cast it's easier that that to anneal.  Simply make your melt, get it to temp, and hold a case mouth down up past the sholder in the melt until your fingers just get uncomfortable.  Drop it in a bucket of water and pick up the next one.  It actually goes quite fiast.

[HGHunter]

I know I originally asked about sizing full or neck for a huntung load but the amount of information I have received has been phenominal.  I also dabble in hunters rifle silhouette using the same model 700 .308.  So all this annealing explanation has been helpful since I didn't know what it was.  I am new to this forum and since I have been here it's amazing how much knowledge is available and how eagerly information is provided.  Since I have been labeled somewhat anal about how accurate I want my loads for target and hunting situations by my peers and wife  :roll: this has been great.

Thanks to everyone who replied to this post!