What type of miniature cannon is this?

[Elizabeth]

Hi, folks. New to the forum, but looks very interesting!

I hope I'm posting this in the right catagory, but please let me know if not.

I was wondering if anyone might know what type of cannon this miniature cannon is modeled after?  I'm learning about them, and have looked around on the Internet, but still don't know.  I'm pretty knowledgable about the Civil War, and even thought I've found similar miniature cannons described as a Civil War cannon, I thought they had spoked wheels.

Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks very much.

[carronader]

if it's on ebay... don't buy it, if you want to make a realistic model cannon ...trash it........and if you want a bit of cannon cred...forget it.     ooooo  and welcome to the Forum.

[KABAR2]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

This is a toy cannon, it is designed to fire caps, it is loosly patterened after cannons from teh 1700's

[Elizabeth]

Thanks for the welcome.

So, I take it you don't know what type it is, Kabar2? 

Thanks for the info, carronader.  That's exactly what I was looking for.

[RocklockI]

Weclome to the board . This is the place to learn....!

[brokenpole]

Welcome to the board Elizabeth.

In terms of the civil war cannons with spoked wheels that would be because they are mounted on a field carriage.  That would be a carriage for land use.

The carriage in the pic you posted is a naval carriage used aboard ships.

[Elizabeth]

Thanks, again, for the welcomes, and thanks for the additional information, brokenpole.  I thought, based on what I found on the Internet, that it might be a Naval type cannon, but wasn't sure.

[dan610324]

first of all , welcome here
nice to have a lady here

the tube is a free fantasy of maybe a 1700 cannon, difficult to say as it doesnt have any similarities with a real cannon , except for length and diameter proportions

the carriage could be for naval or fortress use

but still its a fun toy

[pyro13]

Elizabeth, welcome. I actually have this exact same cannon, which I have had since I was a kid. It was made in italy and shoots caps. As others have said it is loosely modeled on a naval carrrage, but VERY loosely

[Cannoneer]

Welcome, Elizabeth. As KABAR said, these are cap firing toys. When I was a kid I had a naval gun like the one you posted photos of, and also a field gun version, both of which used the same exact pot metal barrels. Mine were made in Italy, (this was from a time long past, when everything imported into our Country didn't come from China) and you can turn the knurled ring (counter clockwise) on the closed end of the barrel to remove the striker & spring mechanism. A plastic cup cap was placed on a nipple at the end of the striker, and when the ball was pulled back and released the cap would explode.

[Elizabeth]

Hey, you guys are great!    Thanks so much for all the information.  As soon as I have a bit more time, I'll introduce myself properly and peruse all the different (!) forums.

[Cat Whisperer]

Elizabeth -

WELCOME to the forum!  When you get a chance, we'd love to see some pictures of what you like to shoot!  Smoke and fire!

And if you're not yet at that point of addiction, we'll help you.   

[MikeR C]

Elizabeth,
BoomJ is right about a small pot-metal naval cannon made in Italy. It was made to shoot caps, is all cast and the wheels do not turn. The following pic is an example of the carraige:



I turned a new barrel, .177 - BB gun caliber, in high school no less. My how things change Yours, however, appears to be made from wood, it is possible someone rebuilt it after removing the metal parts. I haven't seen an example of the capgun out of wood.

There was a plastic kit that is very similar to this style of carraige, a photo of the box:



Popular mechanics had a set of plans of the same naval carraige, which I have, and I combined the toy, plastic model, and plans into this:



Canadian cannon works sells a 1/10th size model with the same kind of carraige that can be seen here:

http://www.brasswithclass.com/carriage_man_of_war.php

I talked to Canadian Cannon works and their carraige is copied from the Popular mechanics plans. For as many examples of this carriage in models, no one has ever come up with a picture, drawing, or any example of a full size example. Very sad 'cause I really like the style. Oh well.
Hope you find this of some use,
MikeR C

[1Southpaw]

Beautiful work .  I'm impressed and in awe of all of the craftsmen who frequent this board.

Never had the attention span to do that level of detail or quality .

My model airplanes flew , Then crashed . My toy's all died a hard death in the sand pile /dirt .  

[lance]

Hi Elizabeth, what's your favorite Civil War cannon?

[RocklockI]

Elizabeth , I dont mean to hijack your thread .....but I will  sorry .

I have to ask ..? WHAT IN THE HECK DO THOSE RATCHET THINYAGES DO ?

I suspect a cam ? but I havent ever seen a print with one . I only ask because I never knew ,and very soon I will need to decide on a navel carriage of 1660 vintage .

I own a cheap navel carriage with a vestige of a ratchet but it doesnt do anything .

Maybe raise the barral then place the quion under the base ring for firing ?

[Cannoneer]

Rocklock,
Like Mike has already said, I've only seen this ratchet arrangement used on model naval carriages, never on the real thing, nor on any drawings or plans for a real carriage. I think what the device is meant to do is hold the barrel down (by a rope around the cascabel) tautly against the quoin so it doesn't jump and bounce when fired. My own opinion is that somewhere along the line, some industrious model maker came up with this idea after reading about how naval guns (especially when barrels with trunnions below the center-line of the bore were used) bashed the quoins when fired. 

[MikeR C]

The plastic model includes a piece of rope to be wound around the axel of the ratchets. it would hold the breech end of the barrel down against the quoin, however it would not do a very good job of it as the leverage is wrong.
With a lot of preponderance it might make sense to have the ratchet pull the quoin in, but neither the plastic model nor the PM plans bear this out.
I really want this to be a "real" cannon but I have to admit I have never seen anything even close to an original like it. I like it 'cause it is "gadgetity", more parts to fabricate!

Thx
MikeR C

[Cannoneer]

MikeR C,
There are two Italian model companies which haven't been mentioned that made/make versions of this type of naval gun and carriage; Pocher and (Mantua still makes the kits) Mantua Model. These are small non-firing models, but they're good quality models with turned brass barrels and mahogany carriages. I had a Mantua Model "American Coast Cannon" made from a kit when I was a kid, and I agree with you that the ratchet device doesn't seem like it would be all that efficient at holding the barrel down.


American Coast Cannon by Mantua
Category : cannons and weapons
33.00€ VAT Incl. Shipment not included*Shipment is free only for Delivery in France above 100 euros. Yet Quirao does deliver worldwide. For all other countries, you can see the shipment fees if you add the product to your basket and select a country of delivery.
(Receive also a Discount Voucher of 2€)
"This Small Cannon was influential in the defence of the eastern coasts of the USA for more than thirty years. Easy to handle, this cannon was ideal for gunnery training and could fire a high volume of explosive balls."  What an accurate grasp of history, the writer of this blurb has.

[KABAR2]

A year or so back we had a discussion going about this ratchet arrangement
to date as has been said no actual cannon carriages or drawings have come
to light, I still think this is a fantasy design.