357 Mag Case Lengths

[Land_Owner]

I just mic'd 400 cases from 1.295" down to 1.242".  Tedious is the word.  How did they get so varied in length?  Some were Mfg once-fired; a lot were free with no pedigree for times loaded.

I will be loading 158 grain lead SWC's; some with canalures for crimping, some without.

The majority (~250) were in the range of 1.280" to 1.270".

Questions are:

Should  I trim to multiple distinct lengths (say 1.285", 1.280"; 1.275"; and 1.270")?

Trim all to  the same dimension (say 1.265")?

Trim the short cases to 38 Special length?  Or, throw away?

[Graybeard]

Let me answer that in a round about as opposed to direct way and no doubt others will give differing views.

I've been reloading straight wall handgun cartridges since around the mid 60s. I've not kept an accurate count but my guess is I've loaded at least a quarter million perhaps more I just dunno.

In all those years I have trimmed exactly ZERO due to over length and as best as I can recall have tossed away a similar number due to the need for triming.

I understand some folks who just gotta keep busy trim their straight wall cases to keep them uniform. I'm really happy such folks find tasks to keep them busy and interested. I'm just not one of those folks.

[huntducks]

+1

[Land_Owner]

I have trimmed exactly ZERO due to over length and as best as I can recall have tossed away a similar number due to the need for triming.

GB, I don't understand and don't misunderstand me.  I don't WANT to trim ANYTHING.  I just want to load and shoot.  For a handgun, no trimming is no problem.  A handgun's effective shooting distance is less than any "accuracy factor" which may or may not be acheived from trimming.

I am rifle reloading.  I didn't post that originally.  How sensitive is case length to accuracy in rifle reloading?  I am reloading for my Handi-rifle and trying to wring out some level of accuracy.  So far, it is hit or miss - the target - and I was wondering if trimming the cases would have an appreciable effect.

Probably cartridge OAL is the most important factor or bullet "jump to the lands".

[84Jim]

I've had problems in the past crimping overlength .357 cases into jacketed bullets.  Longer cases would buckle and leave a bulge that made them hard to chamber.

[P.A. Myers]

I have found significant case length variations in NEW brass. The 'experts' say that straight cases will get longer with firing and sizing. Most of the cases I reject have been work-hardened and split.



 Unequal case lengths will cause the crimp to vary, that will cause variations in velocity, that will cause some accuracy problems. To optimize consistentcy you can trim to the shortest case, or nearly the shortest case. I use multiple single stage presses to reload and do the crimps on an old open Spartan press. I 'float' the crimp die by not locking it with the collar. If the crimp feels too stiff, I back it off, too lite, I screw it down. This is an aquired feel, but I feel it results in a more consistant crimp, Without pain-in-the-butt trimming.


Now I have only done about 75,000 of these and venerate those that have a more complete background in the physical sciences than I do.

[P.A. Myers]

Dear Jim;

It is harder to 'float' the crimp die with some presses and overcrimps may occur. You can get a [cheap] Lee factory crimp die and mount it on a seperate press. Back off or remove the tapered bullet crimper and then run a completed round through the overall sizer in that die. All rounds will easily drop in your gun. If you need to do this with a lot of completed rounds then you should backoff the crimp die on your main press. 357 magnums require a firm crimp to work right.

[necchi]

FWIW, I've struggled with that same issue. All cases, even new, seem to vary in length and I've scoured the net and local sources for a definitive answer.
 About all I've been able to resolve is that a consistant length is best. So I've made my cases all the same length and haven't looked back, some, those that didn't meet that length were simply, (OK somewhat painfully) tossed in the scrap bucket. It's about removing one variable from the mix.
 So far using the short trim hasn't been a detriment. When you look at the dial .035 looks like ALOT, but when you look at that much space between the jaws it's really a small amount.

 The Plus side? I found scrap brass is $1.40 a pound at the local salvage! An icecream pail is worth just under $20.00. And you get too eat the icecream to get the pail 

[mdi]

My suggestion, if you are loading for a Handi for accuracy, would be to trim 'em. Accuracy = uniformaty. So, if all cases are pretty much the same length, the neck tension and crimp would be the same cartridge to cartridge. For shooting in a revolver, it doesn't matter as much; hence many don't trim straight walled brass.

[Badnews Bob]

I shoot three .357 handi rifles (one is a max) and one  marlin carbine, I never trim my cases. I have never checked the length I just shoot them till they crack. The marlin will shoot around 4" at 100 yards with Iron sights, The handies shoot 2" or better at that range.

The only problem with case length I have had is with the marlin. It dosen't like to feed standard length .38s Or short loaded .357s, So, I just load'em long and they work fine

[Land_Owner]

Book says max OAL of 1.590".  I made them 1.630" as they will fit and function in both my Ruger SP 101 and Handi.  Tomorrow I will fire for effect.

I did not trim.  I just made all rounds the same OAL since the straight walled case head spaces on the rim.

[rugerfan.64]

I am new here. With that being said let me ask a dumb question. You're loading for a Handirifle right? Why crimp at all? The main reason for crimp in revolvers is to keep the bullets from pulling as a result of inertia correct? You are loading a single shot. You may get better results from no crimp,just adjust the die to straighten the bell of the mouth. Like I said,I was gonna ask a dumb question. Best of luck.

[P.A. Myers]

 357 magnums require a firm crimp to work right, and thats a fact. Without a crimp some brass the bullet will simply fall out.

[rugerfan.64]

Well,that clears that up. Never loaded for one in a rifle. Told ya itd be a dumb question.

[Graybeard]

I don't have a .357 Mag Handi rifle and doubt I ever will but I do load for a Rossi lever gun so chambered and my ammo shoots as well in it as I can see to shoot with the factory iron sights. In lever guns some bullets tend to feed slick and smooth and some not so slick and smooth but in my experience it is more a matter of the nose shape and over all length of the round not whether the cases are all perfectly uniform in length.

If you have your seater die set for the longer cases then you shouldn't get a buckle due to them and unless you have a really wide spread in the longest to shortest then I just can't see it being a problem at crimp so long as you have the dies set up correctly.

As I said I don't recall ever trimming a straight wall revolver round in all my years of using them. Now semiatuo rounds that headspace on the case mouth are more sensitive as you must use case length to establish proper headspace. I really don't load all that many of them but so far what I have loaded seem to work fine in my guns.

I've not loaded even one semiatuo round per 100 revolver rounds and like the ratio is far higher than that. I used to load .45 acp for a Colt and did fine but when I picked up a new Ruger P90 right after they came out I couldn't get it to feed much of anything so I got rid of it and I've not owned a .45 acp anything since might never again.

I've loaded a few thousand I guess for Glock 19s both when me and Matt both were shooting them and they all worked just fine. I'm now getting into loading some .40 S&W for my Glocks so chambered but I've not fired any of my reloads yet. I think I have a couple hundred loaded up to try when the weather warms and I can take a shooting day rather than a gardening day.

[Land_Owner]

Why crimp at all? The main reason for crimp in revolvers is to keep the bullets from pulling as a result of inertia correct? You are loading a single shot.

Not a dumb question at all.  I am loading for BOTH my 357 Ruger revolver and Handi rifle (single shot).  I want a situation where the 357 Handi reloads will ALSO function in my revolver.

It "escaped" my brain that these straight walled cases head space on the rim.  I am too used to 45 ACP that head spaces on the case.

I did crimp all bullets by slightly raising and lowering the seating/crimping die up or down depending on the feel of the crimp and all of the rounds will fit both rifle and revolver well.

[mdi]

Rugerfan.64, not a stupid question. I use a heavy crimp on my 357 and 44 magnum rounds for two reasons; to keep the bullets in place and to help powder ignition. A little more pressure in the case from a heavy crimp insures complete ignition of some powders (I use a lot of WC820).

[84Jim]

Nice discussion on crimping.  I learned a couple of tricks about how to get rid of that nasty bulge (at least on my .357 rounds)    In the past I just trimmed them about every 3rd loading, which isn't that big a deal to me since I'm not a high volume .357 shooter.  Thanks guys.

[Pin Shooter]

Crimping is definiately needed.  I shoot a Desert Eagle in 357 and somehow I got ahold of a taper crimp die and caused all kinds of problems.  Even though I was getting 1550 fps it would stove pipe and the slide would not go back far enough to chamber the next round.  This happened every couple of rounds.  Bought a roll crimp die and crimped the rest of the cases of the same loading and have not had a problem since.  It needed the pressure spike at the very begining to get the slide work properly.