Author Topic: newbie mauser questions (Read 2908 times)

JonD. · « **on:** January 16, 2010, 01:26:58 PM »

I've got hankering to build a custom mauser hunting rifle, most likely in a .257 Roberts. New to gunsmithing, but a machinist of 20 years, I have studied a great deal and would like to do all the work myself. I have a few questions for all the veteran mauser owners out there. Having looked at many different varieties on gun sites, which are the best/strongest actions to look for(I Know most agree on the 98 style, but which version of it, and what other models make good rifles?)

Bigeasy · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2010, 01:45:18 PM »

I like the 1909 Argentine model. It's a 98 made under contract by DWM in Berlin. Very well made, and has a sporting type hinged floor plate, which is rare on military Mausers. It has been said that some 1909's are a little on the soft side, but can be re-heat treated. I have two, one in 35 whelen, one in 7mm mag. Both have worked fine for many years, and have proper hardness / heat treating, according to my gunsmith. Most of the German made Mausers are nice actions. I would stay away from the late WW2 production actions for obvious reasons, as well as the various non German manufactured actions, some of which are sub par quality.

If you are not set on a military action, you can find a Charles Daly mauser rifle (made in Yugoslavia by the same folks who made the old Interarms Mark X) at decent prices. I just picked up one that is very well finished, smooth, and seems accurate (only fired it 10 shots, so far). Perfect candidate for a nice piece of walnut I have been wanting to use.

Larry

rzwieg · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2010, 08:31:47 PM »

Czech made Persian 29/35 actions are readily available and very good for sporterizing.

GatCat · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2010, 11:09:27 PM »

Like Larry mentioned..
a early WW2, or earlier, made by Mauser, DWM,etc. are great. Czeck VZ24 are great. Mauser "Standard Modelle" (spelling?), a non military version, would be great. A post WW2 F.N. (Belgium) would be great, although most are already "sporterized" ( drilled and tapped for scope, low-safety, etc ). You'll want to get a "large-ring" '98.
Probably first thing to do, is get a copy of the book " Bolt Action Rifles" by Frank Dehass. Much very good info in there. He also brings up the subject of the cut-away in the side of the reciever wall, for loading from stripper clips..on one hand, it somewhat weakens the reciever, on the other hand, it allows vented gas ( in event of ruptured primer ) to escape.
Or, if you are going to load the .257 Roberts to only factory levels ( not plus-P ), one of the '95's ( preferably German made ), or a Swedish '94/96/38 would work fine. I have a DWM '95 reciever ( no thumb-cut ), with Spanish '95 bottom metal ( hinged floorplate ), and a mint '94 barrel ( 6.5X55 ) that will be my next project, but alas I don't have the skills you have, mine will have to be done by a 'smith.
Mark

cwlongshot · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2010, 12:18:01 AM »

I agree with Larry,
I much prefer the 1909 (98) Mauser action. I have a couple I'm currently building a 257 for my wife. 1909 action, Leupold bases and rings, Timney trigger, new contoured firing pin shroud and new claw for the bolt, then a Shilen barrel and Fajen syn stock. I'm not in love with the stock but its light and she likes it light.

I also have a 35 Whelen, a 6.5x63mm, a 280Rem and couple K98s one in 8mm (sporterized) and one in 30/06. All great shooters and beautiful guns. I didn't build the 8mm or the 30/06 my grandfather had the 8mm built and my father the 30/06.

The 35 was my first Mauser build. I didn't do as much on it personally. I bought a short chambered Shilen barrel and BC stock and Timney trigger and and "spoon bolt handle, then dropped it off at the GS. Later on I fit a new claw and contoured pin shroud and had a sleeve threaded and the brake removed.
When I wanted a 6.5, I again looked to the 1909 Argentine action. This one I had much more of a hand in building and only had the barrel removed and installed at the smith. I used another Shillen 6.5 barrel, a Timney deluxe trigger, another contoured shroud and a Wood thumbhole BC syn stock. I finish chambered the barrel after the smith threaded and short chambered it for me. Then I drilled for the mount, welded the bolt handle, fit then and bedded the stock. Lastly I sent everything back to my smith to CK and blue.
I built the 280 next, again a 1909 action, a Shillien short chambered barrel and fajen stock. This one Walnut. No coloured shroud on this one and although it has a Timney trigger too, its a non safety version. I kept the swing safety and only added Bueller lo swing safety. It looks almost identical to my grandfathers 8mm he gave me back in the day. Black ebony tip, deep walnut stock, only the 280 has a 24" smooth barrel and the 8mm a 20 inch stepped factory barrel.

My last one is the 30/06 I just received a couple months ago. It was built by a GS for my father. I don't know who's barrel is on it but I suspect a Shaw or hart altho it has no markings and harts are almost always marked. (It could have been polished off) It was highly polished before bluing. the thing is reminiscent of an early Browning or Weatherby with its gloss luster of the steel. The trigger is an after market, similar to a Timney but different. MAN does this thing shoot!!! He loved the 165HP sierras and they will cloverleaf all day at 100yards. IIRC 4320 powder altho I will likely never need to load a round for it as it came with a couple hundred loaded all the same.

Good luck with yours! Be sure to post up with pics as you go!!

CW

benchracer · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2010, 02:51:51 AM »

Since you are a machinist, you are most definitely starting from a point of advantage. When I began to tinker with mausers, I started by purchasing some books and educating myself on mauser rifles. I would recommend that you start your odyssey by purchasing Jerry Kuhnhausen's shop manual on the subject.

I have experience with Czech made 98/22 mausers and Yugo M48 mausers. I am in love with the Czech rifles and highly recommend them, if you can find one.

The Yugo mausers are excellent, as well, but they have some cons that one should be aware of. First, for some unknown reason, the Yugo M48 and 24/47 are patterned after the FN model 24 variant of the '98 mauser. The FN model 24 has two distinctive features versus the standard '98: (1) A slightly shorter action length that easily handles the service cartridges of the day, but is too short to handle the 30-06 length cartridges and (2) An extractor cut in the breech face of the barrel.

Since you are a machinist, the extractor cut should pose no problem for you. If you wish to build a rifle in any of the short action cartridges with a .473 case head or any of the old euro service cartridges, the M48 will work splendidly. It will also handle the .284 based cartridges, though feed rail mods may be in order. The M48's are well made, still pretty easy/cheap to obtain, and can generally be had in much better condition than some of the more popular mauser '98 variants. I have personally witnessed some pretty impressive accuracy from unmodified M48 service rifles.

When ordering parts and tooling to sporterize an M48, however, one must ensure that they will be compatible with an M48 action.

JonD. · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2010, 03:10:05 AM »

Thanks guys for all the great input. I will look up the books you all suggested as a start.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2010, 11:25:37 AM »

I'll second the Jerry Kuhnhausin manual. It is a great source of information and history on 91 to 98 mausers. If your 257 Bob will be a non plus P version I would go with a small ring and make a nice light rifle.

JonD. · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2010, 12:44:22 PM »

Brownells recommended this same manual. I'll look around and see if I can find it.

Billy, if you don't mind me asking.... I quit the machinist trade and opened my own cemetery monument business at home. What is the stone pictured in your profile? Are you a monument maker also? Just curious, if it is none of my business, just say so...

red alder ranch · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2010, 02:01:00 PM »

I got my kuhnhausen book from http://www.rdgunbooks.com. I had a hard time finding it in stock in a lot of other places.

I just started on my first Mauser project. I bought a used 1917 German 98 action, clean, with bolt handle already bent and D&T for scope mounts. I'm going to put a 35 whelen barrel on it, but haven't decided whether I am going to go with a cheap A&B from Midway, or plunk down a lot more cash for a nicer one. This will be my new elk rifle.

JonD. · « **Reply #10 on:** January 19, 2010, 04:16:41 AM »

Sounds like a great start. My grandfather had an all numbers matching, WWII bring back K98 in 8mm that was in good condition. I would have restored it rather build a sporter from it if I had inherited it, but I would have given anything to get it(one of my cousins got it, but I wouldn't offer to buy it from him for anything in the world.)

Thanks for the book link

JonD. · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2010, 10:50:05 AM »

I guess I'll be getting started on this idea pretty soon. I just bought a 1909 Argentine Mauser. Its all numbers matching, but the one drawback is that it's a "sporter" that Bubba rechambered from the original 7.65 to 30-06. (I'm not an expert, but .308" bullets in a .311" bore probably don't work very well. I guess a guy could load 7.65 bullets in 30-06 cases and shoot fine.) Anyhow, it will be fine for what I'm going to use it for, and the price was VERY good, so here goes....

Huffmanite · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2010, 12:50:13 PM »

JonD, with your purchase of the 1909 Argentine sporter, you have bought what some people refer to as the Cadillac of mauser actions. It is very highly thought of. I have 3 257R rifles built on a 91 Argentine, 95 Chile and 98 Fn mausers. With your 1909 Argentine, you can easily shoot the load data for the so called 257Roberts + ammo. Can't do this in my 91, questionable in my 95, but OK in my 98FN.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2010, 01:18:17 AM »

GOOD SHOW!!

The 1909 will make a nikce sporter! Be sure to record the "build" with pics so we can watch the progress!!

CW

Huffmanite · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2010, 03:35:36 PM »

Your decision to use the 257 Roberts cartridge is a good one. A really good cartridge. Of course I may be biased, have 3 257Rs built on Mauser actions. Used a 1891 Lowes Argentine action, 1895 Chile action and a FN 98 action. The recommendations for using the 1909 Argentine are very good, 1909 sometimes referred to as the "cadillac of mausers", 98 Czech made, especially the Persian ones, are very good, Oberndorf/Sauer 98 actions very good, as are Steyrs. Advantage of the 98 actions, more safety features and you are able to load the 257R to higher pressures in the so called + loads of the cartridge. Standard factory load of the 257R, such as Remingtons, less pressure than wildcat loads it was based on so many years ago. Other factory ammo, such as Winchester, Hornady, Federal more of the 257R + ammo.

NickSS · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:35:37 PM »

The 257 Roberts is a great cartridge but if I wanted a rifle similar to what you are building I would make it a 6.5 X 57 mauser This would shoot a .264" diameter bullet in lieu of a .257" bullet. However, the 6.5 has more variety of bullets and weights as well as heavier bullets for hunting larger game. I gave it a lot of thought and settled on a factory 6.5 X 55 in a CZ 550 for those reasons. I chose the swedish caliber only because I could not find a rifle in 6.5 X 57.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2010, 02:58:50 AM »

Nick, the swede is a great caliber, works on anything from coyote to elk.

Bingo · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2010, 11:50:23 AM »

Oh ya!! 6.5 is my bet too. I have a Type 38 jap in 260Rem and I love it. That thing shoots under an inch all day! To make it even better.....It doesn't kick!

JonD. · « **Reply #18 on:** February 16, 2010, 12:34:43 PM »

Got my rifle in the mail today!! It is in very good condition. Since this is my first go, I'm not going to plan an "all out" custom, but rather a real nice economical hunting sporter(and if I enjoy this as much as I think I will, it probably won't be my last build

) First thing is to get the barrel off and thoroughly inspect the action and check the hardness.(and order Jerry K's manual from Brownell's) I have changed my mind about calibers. If the action checks out well, then I'm thinking about 7mm-08, .280 or .270. I have always wanted a 7mm caliber(and I know, technically the .270 is not a 7mm, but close enough for me

) I already own a .243, which is very close to the .257 Roberts so I think I'm going 7mm. The .270 keeps looking better all the time since I don't reload, and ammo is cheaper than 7-08, or .280. The .35 Whelen crossed my mind also, but ammo prices are outrageous for this caliber. I'm forced to buy my ammo at my local China-Mart, and they don't carry .280 or 7mm-08. I do have a local dealer that carries both, but he has no competition and his prices are sky high. I would love to reload, but just don't have the extra money to get started, and I really don't do a lot of target shooting either, so it just wouldn't be a justifiable expense for only a few rounds a year.

Anyway here goes!!

cwlongshot · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2010, 02:00:31 PM »

In this action, I would completely rule out any short cartridge. I mean your carrying the weight and mass of a med-long action. Take full advantage and go with a FL '06 length caliber.

CW

JonD. · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2010, 02:15:42 PM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on February 17, 2010, 02:00:31 PM

In this action, I would completely rule out any short cartridge. I mean your carrying the weight and mass of a med-long action. Take full advantage and go with a FL '06 length caliber.

CW

I agree. After checking into reloading a little more, I found that I can get started for a whole lot less than I had thought. I just might have to splurge a little and get me a cheap reloading kit and go for the .280 build

freddogs · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2010, 12:43:46 PM »

Good luck, I have mauser 98's in 257 Roberts Improved, 7mm mauser, 30-06, and 35 Whelan. I like the Whelan best but they all work fine, That 35 calibur bullet puts a good hit on game. I've done all the stock work myself but I don't have a lathe. The 7mm-08 and 280 are both nice rounds.

ourway77 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2010, 02:51:54 AM »

I agree I have an Argentine Mauser 1909 made in berlin, hard to beat. It made one fantastic 308 rifle. lou

Bingo · « **Reply #23 on:** February 25, 2010, 03:19:24 PM »

If you are going to reload, may I suggest you look into 6.5X06 or 6.5X284 The ballistics and bullet coefficient are the best you'll ever find. If you want something you can easily buy and reload, I would go 6.5X55 Sweed. These can be bought at any gun shop and Walley World too.
I don't know what kind of shooting you are looking to do but the 270 is limited to about 400 yrds for deer. I sometimes need a little more range than that. That is why I am hooked on 6.5.

JonD. · « **Reply #24 on:** February 27, 2010, 02:35:13 AM »

Hey you guys that have custom rifles built on the 1909 Argentine action: what did you do about the nickel plating on the action? Did you have it blued? Did you have to do much polishing work before you sent it to be blued? Did anybody have theirs re-nickeled? I've been pondering on how to finish it. The cheapskate in me says to do it my self and parkerize it, but I keep having thoughts of a real nice matte finish nickel plating and a stainless barrel.

Anybody ever had anything nickeled and if so how expensive is this?

cwlongshot · « **Reply #25 on:** February 27, 2010, 08:54:09 AM »

Quote from: JonD. on February 27, 2010, 02:35:13 AM

Hey you guys that have custom rifles built on the 1909 Argentine action: what did you do about the nickel plating on the action? Did you have it blued? Did you have to do much polishing work before you sent it to be blued? Did anybody have theirs re-nickeled? I've been pondering on how to finish it. The cheapskate in me says to do it my self and parkerize it, but I keep having thoughts of a real nice matte finish nickel plating and a stainless barrel. Anybody ever had anything nickeled and if so how expensive is this?

I have four and pop has one 1909 Mausers and none are nickle plated.... Mine where polished and blued or blasted and blued.

CW

rzwieg · « **Reply #26 on:** February 27, 2010, 12:28:13 PM »

The bolts on most Mausers were not plated or blued aka in the white.

Three44s · « **Reply #27 on:** February 28, 2010, 06:47:13 PM »

I'd also suggest looking at a 6.5-06 some more ....... give it plently of tube (26) and watch it produce some very good accuracy with handloads.

Sounds like you are going to handload and that's mandatory for the 6.5

You are also looking at the .280 ..... they are good but mine are all 7mm Rems and I like that round.

I own one .270 win. and I really like the cartridge but with today's bullet choices, if I had it to do over again .... I'd go 6.5mm

Ain't shooting and loading just GRAND?

Three 44s

Bigeasy · « **Reply #28 on:** February 28, 2010, 10:43:21 PM »

Jon-

The only finish they used on the 1909 was blue. Some actions / bolts are polished metal - no finish. If you like that type of finish, a satin hard chrome might work. I like blue. Plenty of new bake on epoxy type finishes available these days. Take a look at the Brownells catalog on line for an idea.

Larry

JonD. · « **Reply #29 on:** March 25, 2010, 03:10:41 PM »

Well to say the least I was dissappointed with my purchase. (Just goes to show that all interenet purchases don't end up as good as they do here. I've never had one dissapointment from any purchase from GBO, everyone here is great to deal with.) I do have a good Mauser action, but, it has been Bubbatized big time. The original hinged trigger guard/floorplate assembly had been swapped for a standard mauser. It already had scope mount screw holes, in which one hole was bigger than the rest, most likely a broken tap or stripped hole and drilled out bigger(at leats they are straight, on center and spaced correctly). One hole was drilled into the barrel(which I mentioned was chambered for a 30-06 with a 7.65 bore. I'm assuming that someone was reloading with .311 bullets, otherwise, theres no way it had any kind of accuracy) which made it fun to get off. The original bolt was bent down and the final clearance was ground with a hand grinder. I knew $150 for a complete 1909 Argentine rifle sounded to good to be true. It came with a synthetic stock.

Oh well, as I said, I do have a good action that I can work with and make into a nice hunting rifle. I did purchase a Adams and Bennett barrel in .270Win. The rifle came with a nice Bold Optima trigger and the action could almost be polished a little and used as is. I think I will have it blued or maybe parkerize it myself.

As for the shiny finish on this action? I've read and everyone says that it is "in the white" Given this is a mild carbon steel receiver with carbuerizing(case hardening), if it were in the white it would have rusted pitifully years ago. This has to be some kind of plating on it. Also I've heard a lot about heat treating these actions. The only heat treating they have is an outer case hardening a few thousands of an inch thick and this is simply for wear resistance, it has no strength value. The only thing you could do would be to re-case harden, is this what they're talking about? Other than that, with mild steel it can't be done and even if we could, we don't know what kind of steel it is anyway.