Author Topic: Off center flash holes-PMC brass  (Read 971 times)

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Offline TheSilverSlayer

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Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« on: March 26, 2010, 09:20:21 PM »
This question is piggybacking off my previous post about .38spl plinking loads.  I scored a bunch of once fired .38spl from a buddy who doesn't reload. In the batch, was about 100 pmc's that looked super nice. Upon inspection after resizing, I noticed that nearly all the pmc cases had off center flash holes.  How common is this with pmc and other brands of pistol brass? Also, how critical is this in the safe function of these loads? They will only be used for .38 plinking/target loads.  Finally, how much does off center flash holes affect accuracy?

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2010, 10:18:27 PM »
PMC is junk I don't even bother with them.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline moosie

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2010, 05:52:24 AM »
+ what Greybeard said.
However, they fired once with an off-center flash hole.  Why would they not do so a second time?  Don't expect much of a long life from that stuff though.
Moosie
To fire an accurate shot means to not just hit the target, but to know where the target was hit before the bullet got there.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2010, 06:08:19 AM »
Off center or whatever is of no concern for the first firing but is for reloaders as ya gotta punch out the primer to reload. If the flash hole is off center enough it will bend or break your decap pin. Been there done that. It has to be badly off center unless your decap rod is slightly off already then it doesn't take much at all if both are lined up just so.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline huntducks

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2010, 08:16:35 AM »
I had a bunch of 30 carbine the same way I used center punch to deprime shot them up and left them they shot just fine.
Remember it's where the first bullet goes out of a cold barrel that counts most.

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2010, 02:38:21 PM »
I cull out cases with off center holes. I do not measure, but if I can glance and see it off center - out it goes.
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Offline TheSilverSlayer

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2010, 06:34:06 PM »
shot up a bunch of this brass today. Worked just as well as cbc, rem, win, etc.

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2010, 01:27:02 AM »
When it comes to reloading - there really is not much you can't do. There is no one there to look over your shoulder and tell you this is unsafe or not a good idea. Brass is one area that is really wide open. It baffles me why some one would take chances with their equipment and in some cases their life to save a few bucks. In my early years, I took chances, basically because I did not know better, but in some cases I thought I was saving money. There was no Internet and I did not have someone knowledgeable to guide me. Through trial and error and my personal feelings I have come to some sane conclusions. For one, saving a few dollars on brass is not for me, for many reasons. Now days there are all kinds of sources for good information. It is asked about some thing and there are many answers to the question. Some good and some not so good. When some one asks a question and five or more people answer the question basically the same, I would think it would be good advice. But then the person that asks the question goes off and does what ever they want. Like I said, it is up to the individual to choose on their own. There are good reasons for the advice, in this case Bill pointed out that it could ruin/break your equipment. Just because you are using the brass for low pressure situations does not mean it is safe or will not break your equipment. Then you have keep it apart from other brass so you can handle it special. 38 Special brass is in the $20 range for 100 cases. If it is used for low pressure rounds, it can be reloaded many, many times. This works out to just a couple of cents each, maybe less. I do not understand people picking up brass with an unknown history, either. Buy once fired military brass and you know what you are getting, but picking it up at the range, leaves you not knowing what you are getting and mixed head stamps. In many cases these are loaded to full pressure rounds. It is the same to me, why save a few bucks and take those kind of chances? But this is reloading and if it is possible, it will be done or tried, even when told differently. Personally I have been there and done that and I have come to the conclusion that you need to use good quality brass, even for low pressure rounds, it saves problems at the least and can save your life or your equipment at best. As I have already stated you can do what you want, just think about it and be safe.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2010, 05:01:50 AM »
The FIRST thing that stopped me from using PMC brass was it ruined a huge pile of my other brass. How/why I honestly cannot say but it did.

The stuff was from a fellow I was hunting with and I loaded some ammo for him in .44 magnum and .300 Wheatherby. His .44 mag brass had a bunch of PMC in it and there was some kinda odd looking black stain or coloration on it. I really didn't think much of it and figured it would clean off in the tumbler.

Well it didn't but what it did was contaminate all the rest of the brass I had in the tumbler with it which was a lot of my .44 brass and some others. It not only messed up what was in the tumbler but the next lot or two as well until I figured out what was going on and tossed the media and washed my tumbler. Even then the black crud seemed to get on some brass cleaned in that tumbler for awhile.

Now I dunno why it did it but since then I've seen that black crud on a lot of other PMC brass I've looked over. I won't touch the stuff anymore period. I just toss it in the scrap brass pile.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline TheSilverSlayer

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2010, 08:44:38 AM »
I guess what I was wondering then, was if slightly off center flash holes pose any safety risk in plinking .38spl loads.

I guess I am a little confused by laotto222's post.  Are you saying that these cases could be dangerous? Even though they are from a known source and are in good condition. I realize that accuracy may be affected,  but that isn't really my concern here.

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2010, 10:04:35 AM »
They will go bang. I just do not know why you would use brass that is questionable...just to save a few dollars, I am not sure why else you would use brass some else has discarded. Like I said, you are free to do as you wish. Personally, I do not even consider brass with off center holes, for any purpose. For one thing, it indicates poor quality. What else is wrong with the case, maybe that you can't see? I do not have any experience with PMC brass. Bill has and it does not sound like very good quality brass to me. I rarely buy loaded ammo and when I do, I buy brand names that I can get brass to match, like Remington or Winchester. I keep it separate lots, but generally I do not have to reinvent the wheel so to speak with load development. I do not buy Federal, because I can not get brass to match, not because it is bad brass. I just bought 100 Remington 7-08 brass. I threw out 3 of them for off center holes - brand new cases, never fired. I am not very happy about it, but what are you going to do? I know what I did. I did not see any thing wrong with them, other than the off center hole, but what else is not right with that case? Maybe nothing, maybe a whole lot. I just am not willing to take a risk for a few dollars. What did I do with the 3 cases? I slit them down the side and am using them for bullet length gauges. If I had a whole lot of them, I would not even attempt to load them, not a one. But that is me. I have made more than my share of mistakes...thank goodness none of them were dangerous. I am not so willing to make any more.

BTW I have a scrap brass bucket that cases get thrown into when they are worn out, of questionable quality or I messed up.

No matter what you do, I understand, been there done that. I am just trying to keep you safe and not making expensive errors. Good Shooting and Good Luck
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Offline Steve P

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2010, 10:54:44 AM »
I guess what I was wondering then, was if slightly off center flash holes pose any safety risk in plinking .38spl loads.

Flash hole = A constrained explosion from primer compound allowed to escape thru one tiny area. 

Your flash hole being off center will have NO safety risk in plinking loads.  Does a sidelock muzzleloader with the "primer" on the side of the action pose any more danger than an inline muzzleloader with the "primer" directly behind the powder charge?  NOT

The only "safety" issue to be concerned about when dealing with off center flash holes is safety to your decapping die.  As GB said, you can bend or break decapping pins. 

Go load your brass with plinking loads and enjoy.  Decapping pins are half dozen for a couple of bucks.  Much less than new brass!

Steve :)
"Life is a play before an audience of One.  When your play is over, will your audience stand and applaude, or stay seated and cry?"  SP 2002

Offline TheSilverSlayer

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2010, 06:51:26 PM »
I don't see how the brass itself is questionable for 38spl plinking loads. I know where it came from, and it was discarded because my buddy who shot it doesn't reload.

Steve P, thanks for the answer, thats basically what I was looking for. They must not be that off center since they decaped just fine.

Offline LaOtto222

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2010, 04:52:20 AM »
ThesilverSlayer - I have thought about this subject and your situation for a few days now - it has bothered me. I know I have given you the wrong impression in my zeal about my feelings and how I think you should think. That is not going to happen, I can not or should I force the way I feel about reloading onto someone else. For that, I apologize. Steve P is correct. More than likely you will not experience any problems as far as safety is concerned as long as you are using low pressure loads and as long as you can get the spent primer out of the case, it will go bang, safely. I answer these type questions with my type thinking in place, but not everyone thinks like I do. I think that one well placed shot is important and should be my goal. I have many single shot guns, so it goes along with my thinking. I do not own a semi-auto of any kind in center fire. Even with "plinking" loads, I try to load and shoot as if every shot is important. I use quality components and take extra care when reloading. I really do enjoy the reloading experience. I have a single stage press and more than likely will not own a progressive. So with this type thinking, I recommend using brass that is of at least middle quality, which I consider the Remington and Winchester type of brands. When you get off center primer holes, it indicates poor quality to me. If you have off center primer holes, how much does the case capacity vary, how many reloads will you get out of this brass? To many folks this does not matter, they saved a few bucks. It does matter to me. I load under the assumption that if it is worth doing, it is worth doing right, as repeatable as possible, as accurately as possible with safety in mind. Again not everyone feels this way. My thinking includes using brass of known origin, preferably new. I do not full length size new brass, so that I have one less brass working, shortening the life of the case. I do clean primer pockets for every round, even plinking rounds, I clean my brass after every firing, not to mention using run out gauges to monitor bullet seating. I consider the first loading a fire forming load in bottle necked cases and do not resize, unless I have to. I keep my brass sorted and in lots for each gun. Some folks pick up their brass from the range. I am not saying they do not give a rats a** about safety or accuracy, because they do care - they put saving money ahead of that concern. Every time someone says they use range brass, the bottom line is they saved money. They do not mention it is safer, more accurate or easier, because it isn't. To me it is worth spending a little more. I look for more than, will it go bang, with out blowing up in my face? So the bottom line is, yes the once fired PMC brass with off center holes will more than likely work with low pressure loads and as long as they are low pressure, safe. How long the brass will last, and what kind of accuracy you will get, I can not answer. If these factors are not important to you, then you are home, buddy. Good Shooting and Good Luck
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Offline huntducks

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2010, 08:17:37 AM »
Silver

Shoot them up and if they deprime just fine keep using them till the cases split.

I pick up brass all the time at the range if you can't tell a peice of brass is bad you have had very little time at the bench

When it comes to pistol loads I mix my brass all the time and my pistols don't no the diff.

Reloading is not that hard or complicated like some try to make it.
Remember it's where the first bullet goes out of a cold barrel that counts most.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2010, 09:50:56 AM »
If you reload long enough you wil find bad brass with most any head stamp . Reloading gets harder when the object is to srink group size . For the use you state less than perfect brass would work OK.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2010, 09:54:10 AM »
Also one has to believe the hole was centered enough that you could push the spent primer out so it ain't but so off ? Sometimes for what ever reason the metal around the  flash hole will be bent ever so little and appear off when it may not be as much as it looks . Maybe the decapping pin upset that metal as it went by.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline necchi

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2010, 09:58:10 AM »
I pick up brass all the time at the range if you can't tell a peice of brass is bad you have had very little time at the bench

There was a time when you, like all us us, had "very little time at the bench".

 I'm one in that place right now, and I will heed safty issues brought forth by the likes of GB and LaOtto FIRST! That is the primary experinace that will allow me to HAVE more time at the bench.
 We have a tremendous advantage today as apposed to even 10 years ago, and that is these computer things we have.

 Geez. I wasn't born with 10 years experiance, and until just the past few years ammo has been affordable. I'd be willing to bet that there are more guy's beginning reloading, per capita, today than at any time in recent history. Almost everytime I'm in a shop browsing the reload isles there is someone else there that's just beginning too. Everybody may have different goals with their experiance, but ya gotta face the truth. there is junk out there available for reloading, if ya wanna use it go ahead, but it's just for banging away and not for accuracy. If that's what a guy wants, sobeit, it is gaining "time at the bench".
found elsewhere

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Off center flash holes-PMC brass
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2010, 10:47:19 AM »
Reload what ? around here there is little on shelf . And the order houses out of stock.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !