Anyone swage .41 caliber bullets?

[HHI 812]

Just wondering if anyone swages this caliber. Not much selection in the commercial market, especially with the heavier weights, and thought I'd check this site.
Thanks,
Dennis

[TomF]

Hi Dennis.

I have a set of .411 dies.  What bullet weight/type are you looking for?

[talon]

Dennis, I tried swaging a 400 grain lead jacketed bullet (.018' wall thickness), in Corbin's 'S' dies made for the Winchester .405caliber (.411), and found that that was the limit to how heavy the bullets could be with a 3S ogive. With a RN, pergaps 20-25 grains heavier... using tungsten, maybe 40% more but at a lot higher cost. While a hobby swager could/would do the work,they would have to know, too, how heavy a jacket you would be interested in: it takes about 2-3 months to get the correct size from the supplier, unless you would be satisfied with one made from copper tubing.  Just what specific bullet are you interested in? In the ".41cal" area there are several different diameters, styles, and weight ranges. Then you have odd balls like the .41 colt, which is actually .386"d.

[HHI 812]

.41 TSM, which is a .350 Rem Mag case opened to .410". Was looking for a bullet weight at 300 grains max and jacket thickness of a .030"-.032"?Was hoping to get a spire point too. You guys think I'm asking too much for a .41 caliber bullet? I have a new in box Redding UltraMag press, but not sure if its strong enough for swaging, and can't really afford to get into swaging right now anyway. Thanks guys!
Dennis

[talon]

It's the bore diameter that's important. If it's .410", then the person who would make the .411 Spire points for you would have to get a $50 Bullet reducing die and send them thru that. Unfortunately, I doubt if there is any swager around that makes spire points as the standard for that size rifle bullet is 3/4E (a type of RN) or 4S (a 'fat looking' spitzer). In swaging jacketed bullets you need a $130 Point form die for each type of bullet nose you want to make. Changing the weight (within broad limits) is super easy and cost free.The jacket you asked for can easily be made by anyone with a copper tubeing jacket maker kit ( most who swage .411 jacketed bullets would have such a thing) as that is the wall size of the 3/8th OD pipe used. For you to get started making them, it would take about 6 months or more waiting for the dies to be made and about $1000 for the proper set up. Jacketed bullets over 6mm size are very difficult to make on even the best reloading press; making a 41 caliber out of the question.

[HHI 812]

Sounds like I might have to find someone who already has the dies? Got a few suggestions to go to Hawk bullets, and a couple others. Expensive yes, but I won't be shooting a whole lot of them heavies. Will probably shoot more of the .41 magnum pistol bullets for plinking, as well as get a mold. Thanks guys again for your help. Dennis

[talon]

Yep: fining someone to make a small number of bullets for you is better than investing time, study and money in swaging. If you were to make a few thousand speciality bullets, or 'experiment' with several different weights/lengths, or swage 2 or more calibers, then swaging may be the way to go. But, does Hawk, or anyone else you know, make spire points in a 40 cal (.400) jacketed rifle bullet? ( you still haven't said what the bore on your rifle is: as a wildcat I don't carry a listing on it). Afterall, TomF indicated he may be able to make a few for you if it's at .411, and if you would settle on the type of nose he makes. He may even price his product somewhat closer to earth than a large commercial concern.

[HHI 812]

I was told it I can also use the .41 magnum pistol bullets. TomF do you shoot your bullets in the .41 magnum pistol? Thanks, Dennis

[TomF]

HHI 812:

Although the dies I have make .411 bullets, Mr. Corbin suggested that they would be fine for cartridges such as the .41 Remington Mag.  I don't know if it's worth slugging the barrel just to make sure if the .411 is okay.  I've been told that, in general, .001 over might be better for accuracy. (??)

I have a .411 JDJ, which is a .444 Marlin necked down to a .41.  As you have found out, there's not too much available for the .41 - that's why I invested in the swaging dies.  I haven't had a chance to swage up any bullets for it, though.  I was told, too, to use bullets designed for the .41 Remington Mag, but with a higher velocity from that a .411 JDJ (or your .41 TSM), I think a semi-spitzer/spitzer/spire point bullet with a heavy jacket would be better.  People complain that the the higher velocity .45-70's will lose their jackets, so I'd guess a faster moving .41 would be even worse....any comments, Donna?  But, for plinking, I'm sure the .41 Remington Mag bullets would be fine.

The dies I have will make a 3-S (semi-spitzer) and also a 1/2-E (round-nose).  I also have the copper tubing jacket maker kit.  If I find the room to re-mount my press, I'll try to swage some up this weekend.  I'll let you know how they turn out!

[HHI 812]

I was hoping someone had a .411 JDJ, and hope you don't mind if I pick your brain on the .411 JDJ! I know I should have at least fired more than a few shots from the .411 JDJ barrel I had, but got offered a package deal for it, and sold it at a weak time. Should have kept the unused LBT bullet mold too, because it was made specifically to the chamber of the barrel, and was around 300 grains. You mind e-mailing me at drminak@hotmail.com Thanks, Dennis

[Donna]

Hello TomF,

Lose their jackets? In what way are you talking about them losing their jackets, in flight like a paper jacket is suppose to come off or on impact like in game animals?

Donna :?

[pjh421]

Pistol bullets fired at rifle velocities:  It's a crap shoot.  The extra force they undergo during engraving in the barrel coupled with the higher impact velocity may weaken the jacket enough so that it fails on game.  I'll bet Donna can come up with some other reasons.

Let TomF make you some real rifle bullets.

Paul

[Leftoverdj]

PJH421, rotational stress is part of the explanation for bullet blowup that you were looking for. The relatively thin jacket of a pistol bullet is scored by the rifling on firing as the rifling also induces a high rate of rotation. The stress of rotation (what we usta call "centrifiqual force") tried to tear the bullet apart. In extreme cases, as in .38 Special bullets fired at top velocity from a .35 Whelen, the bullets may come apart in flight.

On impact, the core expands, splitting the jacket on the score lines, and the combination of the expansion and the remaining rate of rotation work to spread the bullet, sometimes explosively.

Or that's the theory. There is no practical way to measure the rate of rotation immediately after impact.