What of whitetails and the .45ACP?

[R. Tillery]

I know it's 'doable', so let's commence with load selection(factory AND homebrewed), range, observations, etc.

[Mikey]

R.Tillery:  If you are going to try a 45 ACP, you will be limited in range due to power and bullet shape.  If your 45 ACP functions with a flatnosed hardcast bullet that would be the best bullet profile you might be able to use.  I do not trust the HPs of softnoses to properly expand at 45 ACP velocities out to 50 yds, which is absolute max for that cartridge.  Using a hardcast flatppoint, or SWC, would be your best bet.  You would be limited to the same ranges you would shoot at with a standard pressure/velocity 45 Colt (not the monster loads - think about the pressure limitations on the old SAA or one of its clones).  You can't get a 45 ACP moving any faster than you can get a 45 Colt moving with about the same bullet weights if you are using standard pressure loads.  

From an accuracy perspective, both the 45 Colt and the 45 ACP have the same barrel twist and the accuracy loads for the colt cartridge can be duplicated in the acp, plus or minus a few feet per second.  So, you can get a 250 gn swc moving out to about 850-900 but then you are pushing the limit for pressures and I believe the accuracy loadings are a bit slower than that.

If you can get a 230 gn SWC or flatpoint moving out to 900'/sec, which is pretty do-able, you should be able to get sufficient chest penetration to 50 yds.  That might bust a bone going in but I doubt it would do that going out.  If you put it through the chest cavity the animal will probably run like it was rifle shot and lay down within about 50 yds.  Just my 2 cents and I hope this helps.  Mikey.

[Gregory]

Cor Bon makes two loads that meets the Illinois 500 ft lbs energy requirement:
45ACP +P -- 185gr JHP -- 1150fps/543ftlbs -- 20 Rnds. per box
45ACP +P -- 165gr JHP -- 1250fps/573ftlbs -- 20 Rnds. per box

[Duffy]

And those Cor-Bon loads would probably open up and stop about 6" under the hide. Most of those loads are for self defence and are designed to not over penetrate. Something not conducive to a good hunting bullet. I have a LBT 230 g FN that shoots well in the ACP and have gotten it up to 930 fps but still wouldn't use it on deer unless it was standing right in front of me.

Just my 2 cnts

[Graybeard]

Personally I wouldn't do it.


But if you are bound and determined then I'd use a 230 JHP like the Hornady XTP and hope for some expansion and for sure an exit. You're gonna need the blood trail and an exit wound is the one that bleeds best. There is no way I'd use the lighter bullets, not even on a bet. I used a 180 in a .44 mag. ONCE and will never do that again. No exit.

GB

[Myk]

A deputy shot a roadkill for me once with a .45acp. It looks like one of the Black Talon's or whatever the one is that replaced them.

He tried to shoot it in the head. It didn't break the skull, came out of the neck after traveling skin, went into the shoulder, traveled the skin a bit, came out mid body and went back in the hind leg and stopped. It did not open the hollow point at all.

Figuring the distance it went it doesn't sound bad, but it really only went through the shoulder meat, most of the distance was traveling between skin and fat.
It failed to expand the hollowpoint. It failed to break the skull. It didn't penetrate in a straight line.

Make what you will of that, but that's my experience of .45acp on deer. I wasn't impressed.

"Cor Bon makes two loads that meets the Illinois 500 ft lbs energy requirement:"

As long as they're not in a semi-auto. Also a 110gr 357 will meet the requirement, but that doesn't mean it would work. Ft/lbs alone is not a good judge.

[Larry Gibson]

R. Tillery

"I know it's 'doable', so let's commence with load selection (factory AND homebrewed), range, observations, etc."

This question always gets the nay-sayers going about as quick as when someone asks about using the .357 mag on deer.  Well I'm not a nay-sayer as I've killed several deer myself and have observed numerous killed with the .45 ACP.  One caveat though, all were out of 5" barreled Gv't Mdls or with my 5.5" Wilson barreled comp gun.  Suggest the use of 20-22 lb recoil springs for the heavier loads.  A buffer, replaced every so often, isn't a bad idea either.

There are range limitations with any pistol and my personal one was 50 yards with the .45 ACP with iron sights.  Yours depends on you and your skill.

The best factory performers were the old Super Vel 180s and the Speer Lawman with 200 gr FAT bullets.  A friend has been doing well with the Fed 230 Hydra shocks on blacktails down in the Willamette Valley in Oregon.  The original Remington +Ps were poor performers.  Don't have any reports on the Corbon or other current factory stuff as mostly reloads are used.  I did shoot a large whitetail doe (maybe 200 lbs) years ago on the backside of Fort Campbell, Ky with a WCC 63 hardball once.  Range was about 25 or so paces.  I say once because she died within 3 steps.  

With reloads the heavy hard cast 260 gr Kieth bullets were tried but above 750 fps they really battered the pistols and weren't very good performers on deer.  The H&G 68 205 FBSWC over 7.5 gr Unique (usually 1050 fps) did a reasonable job with complete penetration on broadside shots.  Best performance was with the Speer 200 gr HP, i.e. the FAT bullet, over the same 7.5 gr of Unique.  Velocity was 1025 to 1050 at the muzzle and sufficient at 50 yards to ensure quite reliable expansion, penetration and good terminal ballistics.  Those bullets are, unfortunately, discontinued but reports are the 200 gr Gold Dot HPs work as well.  I'm sure there are others that work also but those are the ones I know do.  

With the exception of the Texas Heart Shot there really isn't that much to penetrate on most deer to get to the vitals (heart/lung).  Those 200+ lb monsters are really few and far between in most parts of the country.  If you hunt where they are, get a bigger gun.  However if you live where the deer run up to 175 lbs or so (and that's not a bad sized deer either) then the .45 ACP in a Gv't Mdl will do if you stay within it's and your limitations, just like we should do with any type of gun we hunt with.


Contrary to popular opinion, little deers are not that hard to kill if you put the bullet where it belongs.  You don't really need to use a wrist wrenching mondo magnum throwing humongus amounts of lead to kill them.  I have no qualms with those who do like to use guns like that.  I used to do it myself.  Just learned it wasn't really all that necessary to kill deer is all.

Larry Gibson

[R. Tillery]

When I lived in Florida, I was bound and determined to get me a hog with my S&W 645(ca. 1989). I had worked up a load using SPEER's 250 grain LSWC. I disremember the powder, but I believe it was Unique....maybe RedDot. Accuracy was very good and penetration was, well....unbelievable(when shot into Georgia Pacific cardboard bundles.....usually on the order of 18 to 20" at 20 yards). Unfortunately, I never got a chance to try it on hogs.

My current .45ACP is a Kimber SS Target. IF I decide to pursue this endeavor, I plan on using factory Hornady 230 grain XTP +Ps(to start with), and keeping my shots INSIDE 30 yards.

[Questor]

Considering the way most people I see shoot 45 autos, shot placement is a bigger risk than bullet performance.

[Castaway]

:shock: GB, you suprise me!  As a dedicated cast bullet fan, I'd go with a hard cast bullet.  The same sage advice still applies, If you start out at a 45 caliber hole, you've already got the expansion a 30 caliber could ever hope to get.  For that reason, I ceretainly wouldn't go with an XTP.  Wtih the rather mild velcoity of the 45 ACP, I'd want to get all of the penetration I could and hope to make it to the other side!.  Any expansion is just acting like a parachute.

[Graybeard]

Castaway, while I cast and shoot a lot of cast bullets I actually prefer JHPs for deer. True cast will do fine and I've used both and prefer JHPs on such thin skinned game as deer.

GB

[Larry Gibson]

Graybeard
"I actually prefer JHPs for deer. True cast will do fine and I've used both and prefer JHPs on such thin skinned game as deer."

Looks like you and me are heretics these days advocating the use of JHPs on deer instead of heavy hardcast bullets.  Obviously we haven't run into those deer the PETA folks been issuing kevlar vests to!  The hardcast bullets will kill deer and I always hate to say which is "better" as dead is dead, however the JHPs usually get the deer "dead" quicker.  For me that is "better".  

I'll stand to yer back if they want to try an burn us at the stake!

Larry Gibson

[Graycg]

Lots of folks say "If a 45 is such a good manstopper, why can't it be a great deer stopper too".  Well there are several reasons, first and most important reason is that if you look at the lung capacity of a deer in comparison to a person, a deer has much greater lung to body weight capacity.  That means that even if you hit the lungs with a terminal shot, the deer may still have significant lung capacity to die very far away from where it got shot, have fun tracking that.
  Second reason is that most people are shot at somewhere between 7 feet and 7 yards...21 feet.  If you are real lucky, you'll get a 30 yard shot on a deer, possibly a little longer.  45's bleed velocity real quick and have less energy at even 30 yards than you would think.
   Sure you can kill a deer with a 45, but if you have something better, I'd recommend that you use it.

regards,
 Graycg

[teeball]

The only people I know of who hunt deer with a .45 are compitition shooters and people with alot of patience. I have done it ( I am ony with patience ) but only  in standing corn. Most often late in the season and on windy days. Don't look for an easy kill. I shot one in the lungs from only about 10 feet and quite a track long track job. I talked to a good friend about it because I knew that he used a .45 for deer, and he only goes for head shots. And he's a compitition shooter. I was useing Winchester Silver Tip HP. Good luck and have fun.

                                                            teeball