Author Topic: My 30-30 misfires (Read 1611 times)

Adk Mike · « **on:** March 06, 2010, 12:24:49 PM »

Here's the story. I bought a New 30-30 Handi just before Christmas I started shooting it last month only about one in three would go off. I've been a Handloader for 30 years and never had anything happen like this before so I boxed it up and mailed it to Ilion. It came back this week and off to the range I went. It would not fire with my loads RP cases CCI primers 9 grains of Unique and a cast bullet Lyman 311041. Anyway I found a couple Remington Factory loads and they fired fine. The unfired rounds worked fine in a Savage 340. So what do I do next? I not mailing it back to the factory. I will load a few rounds tonight with a different brand of primer just for kicks. Every other Gun I own shoots with my handloads except this one. It looks like a fun Gun I've even put a Williams target peep sight on it. But I have to make it work and I'm hoping you guys have some advice. Mike

cwlongshot · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2010, 12:28:00 PM »

The triggers on handis are a bit different then other rifles... they must be pulled completely and fully to the rear of the trigger guard. If your used to a fine bolt trigger and stop the "pull" when the sear breaks, you will get miss fires regularly...

I like to recommend a Wolff Extra Power spring as well...

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** March 06, 2010, 12:38:52 PM »

You're not using an EZ-pull trigger assist, are ya Mike? Just thought I'd ask, two member have had the same problem using them in the last week.

As CW mentioned, the transfer bar requires good trigger pull follow thru or it won't work well. The difference in primer hardness between the factory loads and the handloads may be the culprit tho, headspace and primer seating depth may also play in the misfires. Weak hammer springs are a known issue, readily corrected with a Wolff spring, they're available direct from Wolff or Midway, you'll want the single coil.

Tim

http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=2&mID=27

Adk Mike · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2010, 02:15:26 AM »

Thanks for the tips. I'm not using the EZ trigger pull gadget and I am holding the trigger back. The barrel fits fine. I have CCI primers and it would be nice if they worked in this rifle because I have about 3000 of them on the bench. Anyway I feel it is a weak spring so I'll order a Wolfe today and put it in. Is installing this spring a big job?

Buster95 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2010, 03:30:18 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on March 06, 2010, 12:38:52 PM

Weak hammer springs are a known issue, readily corrected with a Wolff spring, they're available direct from Wolff or Midway, you'll want the single coil.

Tim

http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=2&mID=27

Why the single coil Tim, the double coil is only $1.00 more?

44 Man · « **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2010, 03:35:17 AM »

When my old Topper 30-30 started it's fall from grace, it would fire Rem factory but not Winchester or handloads. Then after another box or so of ammo, it got where it would not fire anything. It was an older used gun, so I had no idea what might have been 'altered' before I got it. I replaced the hammer spring first, then the hammer, then the lifter (transfer bar). None of that solved my problem until I replaced the trigger. An old gunsmith friend of mine had told me when I first started having this problem that 'if' someone before me and done an incorrect trigger job, that it could fail to hold the t-bar up and would fail to fire. He was correct. When I finally replaced the trigger, the problem went away. I don't know if the hammer/trigger combo both needed to be changed because I changed the hammer first or if the only the trigger swap could have fixed the problem. So, if changing the spring does not fix the problem, just change the innards, at about $20, they are cheap enough. Good luck with it. 44 Man

Here's the old Topper with the new innards and a BC stock on her!

Buster95 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2010, 03:36:28 AM »

I just rechecked on the Wolf site, they have a minimum order of $25 for international order!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the shipping to Canada is prohibitive!!!!!!! All International order have a $3.00 handling fee for export documentation and makeup

All this for a spring

cwlongshot · « **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2010, 03:56:32 AM »

Quote from: Buster95 on March 07, 2010, 03:36:28 AM

I just rechecked on the Wolf site, they have a minimum order of $25 for international order!!!!!!!!!!!!! And the shipping to Canada is prohibitive!!!!!!! All International order have a $3.00 handling fee for export documentation and makeup All this for a spring

Old model H&R's utilized the Dbl coil. Current models use the single coil..

While its fine to look at the manufacturers site... You always pay more and have limitations like that.. Go to Miday USA and see what the deal is there.
(I have no idea, on international orders. I'm in Conn. USA,)

Good luck,
CW

gcrank1 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2010, 04:09:14 AM »

Buy a box of Win. or Fed. primers (or get a few from a friend to try) first. KISS principle, you know. I would recap the brass without loads for an ignition test.
Also, FWIW, Clean the rim cut and chamber well and dry, with the brass fully seated how is your headspace across the breechface (lay on a straightedge). You will have to fully compress the ext/ejec. head to do this. I use the edge of my vise. It should headspace on the rim cut within .006" (less is always better, though).

cwlongshot · « **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2010, 04:15:28 AM »

I didn't mention firing pin protrusion before, as its been to factory and I assumed they would have checked it.... Maybe you should check that yourself as well.... It should be between .040 and .050 from the receiver.

Just an additional thought....
CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2010, 04:30:56 AM »

Quote from: Adk Mike on March 07, 2010, 02:15:26 AM

Thanks for the tips. I'm not using the EZ trigger pull gadget and I am holding the trigger back. The barrel fits fine. I have CCI primers and it would be nice if they worked in this rifle because I have about 3000 of them on the bench. Anyway I feel it is a weak spring so I'll order a Wolfe today and put it in. Is installing this spring a big job?

From the many reports here, CCI primers are among the hardest of primers, as hard as it is to find primers now I hope the new hammer spring and possibly increasing pin protrusion solves the issue, you can remove a little off the hammer face where it stops against the frame to increase pin travel if it's insufficient. See the trigger hone info in the FAQs and Help sticky.

Tim

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2010, 04:34:39 AM »

Are you using the Hammer Spur? That has also been known to soften the hammer blow to the point of misfires. If you are, take it off and see if it works better. DP

Mac11700 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2010, 05:12:00 AM »

I had this problem with one of mine as well. I was lucky..my problem was I full length resizing them too much. I'm not saying that is your problem,but,if everything checks out correctly try neck sizing a few fired cases about 3/4 of the way down the neck and see if you still have the same problem with it.After I started neck sizing them,I only full length sized them when I had to trim them. With my bull barreled 243 I had a very good min spec'd chamber and could do this..others with not so good chambers can't. I only have the 48th Lyman edition book..and don't see that load your using in it..

Edit...oppps I didn't see it was a 30-30 and was reading the 243 thread right before this one..FWIW though..I still only neck size for any of my Handi's..Just had better luck even with my 30-30's I've had..Your load should be fine after checking my book on it.. Do check and see if your rim is below flush with the breech face..If it is this might be the cause..

Good Luck
Mac

Adk Mike · « **Reply #13 on:** March 07, 2010, 10:47:29 AM »

I just want to say, Thanks for all the tips. I'll change the spring and try some things you guys suggest. I've put a Wolfe spring in my old Ruger 77 about twenty years ago and it cured it. The funny thing back then it was CCI primers that were giving me trouble. With primers short over the past year I bought some because thats what I could get but I prefer Remington,Winchester, or Federal. This Gun has to be fixed I hate to see used as a tomato stake. Mike

gcrank1 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 07, 2010, 12:04:52 PM »

Maybe see if you can swap them with somebody close by one for one.

bud1 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 10, 2010, 05:30:54 AM »

I have been using NEFs and H&Rs for many years and the only misfires I have had is to the primers not being fully seated. What are you using to seat primers. I use only my press for seating them. I have been loading since the fifty's Good luck

Adk Mike · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2010, 02:53:12 PM »

I spent some time with the rifle today. I had 27 rounds this time I used Federal 210 primers and they all went off fine. In fact the gun is a lot of fun. I'm not really down on cci primers at all I have a US model 1917 30-06 and they shoot great. I shoot it every week and it has never misfired. I prime all my shells with an RCBS bench mounted priming tool. You can seat them to deep with it but I try not to do that. I'm going to install the Wolfe spring and see how it goes. If that doesn't do the trick I'll just stick with Federal primers in this rifle. Mike

zoner · « **Reply #17 on:** March 11, 2010, 02:21:55 AM »

the only primers i ever had trouble with were CCI.....so I don't buy em

gcrank1 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2010, 04:06:51 AM »

Glad you have it worked out.....now you can get on to having fun!

bud1 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 11, 2010, 05:09:46 AM »

Mike, you can not set your primers to deep. They MUST set to the bottom of the primer hole in the case. Otherwise the hammer must keep on hitting it until the primer is on the bottom of the primer hole.

Buster95 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 03, 2010, 05:09:37 AM »

If we need single coil hammer spring for current models why Brownell sells only double coil??? http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=16500/Product/H_R_TOPPER_HAMMER_SPRING

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** April 03, 2010, 06:34:23 AM »

They don't, they sell the factory spring too, you just have to know where to look, factory parts link can be found on their home page, left side, SHOP OUR FACTORY PARTS, click H&R, then SB2 Handi-Rifle/H&R Ultra.

Tim

http://www.brownells.com/

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=18158/pid=0/sku/Hammer_Spring

cwlongshot · « **Reply #22 on:** April 03, 2010, 08:39:16 AM »

Quote from: bud1 on March 11, 2010, 05:09:46 AM

Mike, you can not set your primers to deep. They MUST set to the bottom of the primer hole in the case. Otherwise the hammer must keep on hitting it until the primer is on the bottom of the primer hole.

Just a word on this.. While your correct that you can only seat a primer as deep as its pocket, crushing them will also cause misfires as the anvil of the primer will not work properly when compressed. Seat them every so slightly below flush to the bottom of the pocket. Check them on a piece of glass or other known flat surface. If they rock at all they are proud of the surface...

CW

Mtnguy · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2010, 11:00:13 AM »

My ultra rifle in 45-70 had the same problem. My friend bought one at the very same time I did (only a few S/N apart) he had absolutly no problems. Mine misfired everthing with an occasional round going off. I broke down and sent it back to H&R via UPS. The kind folks at H&R corrected the problem ( hammer spring, hammer machining, transfer bar, hinge pin and firing pin) Cost me the price of shipping to them but it's working great now. It shoots a 3 shot,sub MOA group using Hornaday LE ammo. I would have shot the 5 shot group but it kicks a bit.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2010, 04:59:46 PM »

I had some trouble with misfires when I first got my 45-70 and it had nothing to do with the gun or the loads, it was all me. I wasn't bringing the trigger back far enough to keep the transfer bar up. I solved this by repeatedly firing with a snap cap. If I pulled the trigger correctly there would be a slight click after the hammer fell that was caused by the sound of the bar falling when I let go of the trigger. If I didn't here that click I hadn't pulled the trigger back enough. You might surprise yourself if you try this and DON'T hear the click after yo pull the trigger on a snap cap.