Author Topic: Any ballistic gel tests?  (Read 1967 times)

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Offline fistmil

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Any ballistic gel tests?
« on: March 08, 2010, 02:04:36 PM »
Has there ever been a ballistic gel test for cap n ball revolvers? It would be interesting to see a comparison of penetration between round ball vs. conical and 36 cal vs. 44 cal.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Any ballistic gel tests?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 08:29:24 AM »
Me too!! These revolvers passed into obsolescence before modern ballistic science was fully evolved. Someone should revisit the old timers.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline His lordship.

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Re: Any ballistic gel tests?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2010, 10:27:54 AM »
About 3-4 years ago I did a test using an obsolete accounting textbook.  The book was hardcover, had many pages (guess around 1,000) and dense paper.  I fired my Walther P-38 into it using 115 grain FMJ 9 MM and my Pietta 1860 Colt Army using light loads at around 35 feet.  The Army's 44 caliber ball penetrated one third of the book, and the P-38 did about two thirds penetration.

I was surprised as the P-38 is no hunting magnum revolver with it's 4" barrel, I thought the Colt would do better being a .44. 

In 1989 I did another experiment using a Euroarms 1851 Colt in .36 ball and medium loads and a Mauser Broom handle pistol with a 5" barrel and using 7.62 X 25 Tokarev surplus ammo FMJ, I think it was Yugoslavian.  The target was an unwanted steel WOK pan, range was probably around 30 feet.  The Colt Navy only dented the pan, shallow dents at that.  The Broom Handle went through it like warm butter.  I later learned that the 7.62 X 25 Tokarev is noted for heavy penetration, even through an automobile.

I was fortunate that I could do these tests at locations where I could setup items to be test penetrated, most ranges won't allow people to do this.  And I was nervous about ricochets from the .36 caliber on a rounded steel item.   

In another test I used an old nickel plated revolver, one of those junky .38 caliber Saturday night specials that did not work, I think it was an Ethan Allan, or a branch producer.  I hit it twice with my Beretta 92 in 9 MM using 115 Gr. FMJ bullets.  The grip got knocked off and a shallow dent in the frame.  I then used my Remington 700 in .243 on it, range was around 50 feet for both.  I hit it twice with the .243 ( I don't remember the bullet weight), One round carved through the cylinder like warm butter, and the next blew the gun in half like it was glass.  I really respect center fire rifles after that.

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Any ballistic gel tests?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2010, 04:55:01 AM »
Penetration tests in one material really do not at all relate to penetration in any other material. I once was doing some plinking at a roadside dump site, shooting a .45/70 with 385 grain RN cast bullets at about 1300 fps and a .223 with 50 grain JSP at about 3200 fps. I set up an old brake drum and shot at the thin side. The .45/70 knocked the drum flying but only dented the steel. The .223 bored a clean hole like a drill press. I then tried the drum edgewise. The .45/70 again knocked it down but left only a grey mark on the thick cast iron drum. The .223 again bored a very clean hole in the first side and a broken, ragged hole in the other side. I then tried a couple of shots on a long dead and very dry pine tree. The .45/70 zipped right through the 12" trunk and left a divot on the hillside behind it. The .223 penetrated less than 6" as near as I could tell by poking a wire into the hole.
 My conclusion was that high velocity cuts steel, heavy lead cuts wood and probably neither material is any indication of what happens in flesh. That is why ballistic gel was developed and that stuff doesn't really relate since no living creature is composed of one homogeneous material.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Elijah Gunn

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Re: Any ballistic gel tests?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2010, 03:21:21 PM »
Penetration tests in one material really do not at all relate to penetration in any other material. I once was doing some plinking at a roadside dump site, shooting a .45/70 with 385 grain RN cast bullets at about 1300 fps and a .223 with 50 grain JSP at about 3200 fps. I set up an old brake drum and shot at the thin side. The .45/70 knocked the drum flying but only dented the steel. The .223 bored a clean hole like a drill press. I then tried the drum edgewise. The .45/70 again knocked it down but left only a grey mark on the thick cast iron drum. The .223 again bored a very clean hole in the first side and a broken, ragged hole in the other side. I then tried a couple of shots on a long dead and very dry pine tree. The .45/70 zipped right through the 12" trunk and left a divot on the hillside behind it. The .223 penetrated less than 6" as near as I could tell by poking a wire into the hole.
 My conclusion was that high velocity cuts steel, heavy lead cuts wood and probably neither material is any indication of what happens in flesh. That is why ballistic gel was developed and that stuff doesn't really relate since no living creature is composed of one homogeneous material.



Thats why the military used to test different types of ammo on livestock years ago. See how "messy" it was.
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Offline .50cal

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Re: Any ballistic gel tests?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2010, 09:04:59 AM »
A friend of mine found on an internet search how to make a home made ballistics gel we just havent had time or good weather yet to do it...maybe someone else?

 http://www.customcartridge.com/pdfs/BallisticGel.pdf