45-70 Hot Cast loads

[jason045]

Hi everyone.  I just found a stash of 250 hard cast 400 gr.  I would like to push these up to and maybe exceed the Garrett ammo level in my 24" barreled handi rifle.  Most all the reloading data I can find on cast bullets is trapdoor or 1895 levels.  No level III loads.  The powders I have to work with are H4198 and IMR4198.  Anybody have any favorites with velocities?  Thanks--Jason

[stimpylu32]

Jason

The problem with cast bullets is that if you try to push them too fast with out a GC you will end up with bad barrel leading , and the Handi has shallow rifling to start with , thus making it even worse.

I've run the 405's up to top lever gun loads w/o a GC and been Ok , but once I got into the Ruger level loads the leading became a real issue and they shot like crap .

That and they kick like a MULE in that light gun !!!!!! OUCH 

stimpy

[bikerbeans]

Jason,

Quick sent me a link to Real Guns, i think it is www.realguns.com, that has published both cast and jacket loads for the 45 70.  Loads are supposed to be maximums (Ruger #1 & #3) but I don't recall if they give you the pressures.  There are loads for IMR 4198 but I don't think they have any for H4198.  Could also try www.handloads.com and look at their database for the 45 70.   I would double check anything you see on handloads.com. 

BB

[quickdtoo]

Actually they're Marlin 1895 loads, they're also Ruger loads by Lyman and others that don't use SAAMI 45-70 specs for trapdoor. If you compare Hodgdon data with the Realguns data, you'll see the Realguns data falls below the 40kcup level Hodgdon uses for lever action data, Hodgdon (and Hornady) uses 28kcup for trapdoor max which is the SAAMI MAP for the 45-70, 40kcup for lever action and 50kcup for Ruger/modern rifles. For the 45-70, kcup = kpsi.

Tim

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570cast.htm

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

[jason045]

Hey Tim,  gotta question for ya.  I found some 720 gr FNGC bullets for 45-70.  I thought I saw somewhere on another thread that you had one of those predictive interior/exterior ballistics programs.  Just out of curiosity could you check it out and see what the potential velocity of these are out of an ultra hunter.  Thanks alot.  BTW anyone interested in the Tyrannosaurus Thumper bullets, the website is lsstuff.com/ranger-rick/

[quickdtoo]

The Ranger Rick 720gr bullets are too long to stabilize in the 1:20" twist at any velocity a 45-70 is capable of at safe pressures, even in a 32" 45-120, they would need a calculated 2000fps or more to shoot anything but keyholes, Tyler tried some of mine at 1750fps in his 45-120.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,151146.msg1098635843.html#msg1098635843

[jason045]

Thanks for the heads up Tim.  What about the 460 grain gas-checks from cast performance.  Anybody test drove them?

[bikerbeans]

Jason,

Yes I have loaded and shot the 460 Cast Performance GC bullets.  In my Handi 45 70 I have to load them at 2.51" OAL to stay approx. 0.025" off the lands.  Using H4198 I have worked up to 44 grains with a start load of 38 grains.  44 grains kicked a bit in an unmodified handi.  Most of these I shot with iron sights and then a real old scope before I upgraded optics.  Groups at 100 yards where in the 2 to 3 inch range.  I have loaded more of these @ 41 grains H4198, as this charge did a little better than the rest.  Will probably shoot these this week and see what happens.  Just by looking at the profile of these bullets I would think they are hog material, probably a tad heavy for deer.

BB 

[Dances with Geoducks]

My standard 405gr cast boolits, pan lubed, non GC load is 40gr of Reloader-7 @ 1700fps.

Not a trace of leading, and darn accurate.

I dont consider this a hot load

[bikerbeans]

Jason,

I forget the web address but Accurate powders has load data for 45 70 cast bullets.  I think their max. load data goes up to 40,000 psi.  They do have a couple of loads for the Cast Performance 460.  The powder I want to try with the CP 460 is AA 2230 but I can't find it locally.

Geoducks, I finally found some lead Postells (520 grn) to try in my 45 70.  Gotta love a big long pointy lead bullet.

BB