Picking a powder

[Wayne123]

I often hear people say that a powder is too fast or slow for a particular cartridge.  Others say that this particular powder is better with heavier or lighter bullets in X cartridge.  Is a shorter case such as 7mm-08 better suited to a faster powder where a longer such as .280 Rem better with a slower powder if using the same bullets?  Can someone please explain this to me.  Also, how do most go about choosing a powder when doing load development?  Do you simply look over the manuals and find a powder that seems to perform well in various manuals?  By the way, I am currently started load development on a 7mm-08 and a .280 Rem with Hornady 139 gr SPs.  I have 3 lbs of H4350 so I will be using it in the .280 and possibly the 7mm-08.  Thanks for the info.

[shot1]

Your H-4350 will work perfect for both the 7-08 and the 280 with the 139/40 gr bullets. On the average the larger the case capacity the slower the burn rate of powders. A good rule of thumb is use a powder that nearly fills the case before you run into pressure problems. If the max load suggested in a manual for Powder X nearly fills the case it usually will work great. One thing I have learned over the 30+ years I have been reloading that saves me money and time is to just look into the Sierra loading manual for the caliber and bullet weight that I am going to load. They have suggested accuracy loads and hunting loads. I have found that most of the time these loads are right on the money. Good luck in your load quest and good shooting.

[Glanceblamm]

If the max load suggested in a manual for Powder X nearly fills the case it usually will work great.

Great rule of thumb and one I learned from J Charmichael.

[Grumulkin]

Buy the Nosler manual.  It lists powders that gave the best accuracy with the various bullet weights.

There is a difference between working "great" and working the best.  Among powders that nearly fill the case, there will likely be one or two that work measurably better than the others.

[bilmac]

Shot about summed it up. When you get down to the fine details the best powder for 280 and 7-08 is probably not the same. Assuming that you are working at about the same pressure levels then you would want a slightly slower powder for the larger case. This lets you wring out all the advantage of the bigger case. My best loads are often with a powder that nearly fills the case and gives near the max velocity.

+ 1 on referring to the accuracy loads given in the manuals, they often work for me.

[AtlLaw]

Welllll, let me see here...    Powder nowadays is kinda like wimmins...  They be so many of every size shape and discription out there that a guy would go crazy trying to keep them sorted out!  And they all will do what they designed to do; some just do it faster, or hotter, or slower.  And some are just... um, different!    Like using Trail Boss in a 300 Weatherby Mag or a girl who likes...    well, lets say the strange and unusual...    Anyway, like I say, they all can get the job done, it's just that some aren't worth the effort to try out.

Now, I remember when I was a young buck, I set myself the goal of makin love to every woman in Metro Atlanta.  Darn near kilt myself tyrin and barely scratched the surface of the available supply!  Pert near wore out my shootin iron too!   

It's the same with powders.  If you got a 300 WM which may have a barrel life of say 800 rounds, you very well may wear out that barrel trying all the powders you can, but not necessarily should, use in that cartridge!  And with just one bullet weight!

Wimmins or powders, you just got to cull out the ones that ain't worth the time to try on for size.  Different wimmins got characteristics and so do different powders.  Pick out the characteristics you be looking for and see what's available.  A man looks for a female that is suitable for cookin, cleanin, washin and ... 'um, recreation!     He looks for a powder that is suitable for the caliber, case capacity, intended bullet weight and desired velocity.

Of course, a good place to get a lot of information is the written word.  Try the Kama Sutra for one and reloading manuals for the other.

[wncchester]

"Do you simply look over the manuals and find a powder that seems to perform well in various manuals?"

Yes.  You can be certain the book makers have chosen powders that will work as well as possible for each cartridge, they aren't trying to kid you.

As Atl Law says, predicting which  powder will give "best accuracy" is as consistant/dependable as asking what pass line will work best on a woman; they ARE all different about what they respond to and only experimentation will let you know what works best!

[AtlLaw]

only experimentation will let you know what works best!

And I for one DO enjoy my 'sperimentin!       

[Dand]

Wayne,  like another said, you need to read a couple (few) loading manuals and maybe go to powder manufacturers websites and read about powder.  I think you'll start understanding the terms about powder and what works best for your cartridge. The selection of powders is getting huge and confusing these days. You might want to look up Ken Waters' Pet Loads on the 7-08 from Hand Loader magazine. Those Pet Load articles usually gave a real thorough discussion of powders suitable for the cartridge and Ken's test results.  These are getting somewhat out of date and don't list many of the currently available powders. But they have a lot of very strong basic info and will list many of the well known powder standards. From there you'll better understand all this powder talk. Oh and the complete Pet Loads series can be bought in a big ring binder format if you want but it isn't cheap. You might be able to down load the individual articles from the Wolfe Publising web site. Enjoy the reading.

[Dezynco]

I have found that most of the powders listed in the manuals work pretty well, maybe not the "best", but good.  What I do is look for a powder that I can use in most of my cartridges so that I can get more mileage out of it.  Once I have a few like that, I begin experimenting to find a "caliber specific" powder to develop a pet load for that particular cartridge.  By doing this, I'll always have a pound or two of powder that I know will work in almost anything (call them "all-purpose" if you like).

For example, I know that Varget works best in my 30-30 Contender pistol, but I try to keep a pound of IMR 3031 around because it will work in nearly all the larger rifle cartridges, even with cast lead bullets.  I always have Unique on my shelf because it makes a great all-purpose pistol powder, though there are a few that work better for specific calibers.  That way I'll always have some powder that will work, regardless of whether it is the "best" for that caliber.

After a while of reloading, you'll have a shelf full of different powders like all the rest of us!

[Wayne123]

Gentlemen, thanks for the replies.  I am not so much looking for load info for these two cartridges as much as looking for the info that causes a particular powder to be suitable for a particular cartridge with a particular bullet weight.  What is the relation between case capacity and design, bullet weight and burn rate?

[wncchester]

"What is the relation between case capacity and design, bullet weight and burn rate?"

We don't know.  No one does, at least not in the way you mean.  If that were possible all any of us would have to do would be to work the formula and, presto!, we would have the proper load.  But there are far to many varabiles, many of them unpredictable and unknown.  The qualities that make for a "perfect match" ballistically (pressure/velocity) may not work well for accuracy; that's WHY we do the spearmintin'.

[Graybeard]

My recommended minimum for reloading manuals is the latest version from each bullet maker whose bullets you will or even might chose to reload PLUS the Lyman Manual and if you'll be using cast bullets the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual also PLUS the powder maker's manuals for all powders you might want to use PLUS all the free powder manuals you can get. It's also good to have the last three or four from each of these folks prior to the most current.

To me that's the absolute minimum to begin reloading ammo. However more is always better. I suspect I have at least a hundred loading manuals likely more.

When I get ready to begin a loading project whether for a new rifle in a chambering familar to me or a new cartridge I've not loaded before my procedure is the same.

I decide what bullets I will use. This usually a group of 3-5, seldom less but sometimes more. I then scour the manuals looking at how the various powders perform in each manual with each of my chosen bullets or at least with bullets of similar weight and construction. Some manuals list which load was most accurate for them, all manuals list what velocity they got and some list pressures they obtained.

I study all this data looking for which two to four powders appear to give the best combination of velocity and accuracy. It has been my experience in roughly 45 years or so of reloading that the powders that give maximum velocity within a given cartridge also are most times the ones that give best accuracy. My theory on that is that the reason they give max velocity is they are the best balanced for that case and thus somewhere along the range of loads to try they will give a really good accurate load.

So I will then decide from my bullet list which I'd really prefer based on external ballistics expectations such as performance on game if a hunting bullet and accuracy reputation of said bullet. I'll rank the ones I chose from one to whatever number I have and begin my testing.

I long ago stopped beginning at the starting load listed. I did that because I've pretty much never found that to be the most accurate load, I know I will not be satisfied with that velocity level for a hunting load (but might for a paper punchng only load) and so long as I have compared several manuals I have already determined that at least the middle of line loads are gonna be safe in my gun with almost certainty cuz several books found the max loads listed as safe in theirs.

So I begin near the middle of the range of powder charges that several books agree on and load up six round of that and will generally go ahead and load up a couple more a bit hotter but will not load up the max yet.

I'll go to my range and shoot each load in turn on paper doing my best to shoot without error on my part to skew the result. Once I've gone thru all of them once I'll go back thru them the second time thus the six rounds of each. If the rifle is to be used as a target/varmit rifle the number is increased to ten as I shoot five shot not three shot groups for target varmint guns.

This process will generally show me the most accurate bullet or bullets for each powder I have used. I will then decide which are worth additional effort and do some more loading using the most accurate of those shot and will try one load both below and above it in powder charge. This is normally a half grain up and down but can vary depending on the powder charge being thrown and if for a hunting or varmint/target use rifle.

So long as accuracy stays the same or improves I'll slowly creep upward until I reach what a concensus of the manuals say is max. If I get there fine and if I don't fine. I'm lookng for most accurate load regardless but at the upper half of the range of velocity possible. This is done for each bullet/powder combination I have decided to experiment with.

The end result more often than not is that I have two loads of roughly equal accuracy with two different bullets and very often two different powders each of which are so close to the same at 100 yards that the decision on which to ultimately settle on must be made based on longer range shooting (something I don't have available to me these days) or by performance on game.

Right now from this long drawn out procedure I have to loads from my Remington 700 LSS Limited Edition .257 Weatherby Magnum. This rifle was made in very limited numbers one year only and has a gray laminated stock and bead blasted stainless steel finish with 26" barrel to get all the fps it can deliver and the .257 Whby can deliver a LOT of fps.

One load uses the Barnes 115 TSX and the other the Nosler 120 PT. There is almost no difference in accuracy between then at 100 yards with both pushing oh so close to half inch three shot 100 yard groups time and again. Velocity edge goes ever so slighly to the TSX as surprisingly does the accuracy edge but only by a mere one tenth of an inch.

Now I must find a way to test them on game and hopefull find a place to test them out to at least 300 or 400 yards as that's pretty much my personal limit for this round on the game I'd use it on. I really hope to take this rifle on a pronghorn and mule deer hunt eventually and wouldn't mind trying it on an elk if the chance ever arises. More likely it will first be used on whitetail deer and hogs or exotics. When/if I reach the hunting grounds for the western game I hope to find a place to try them at longer ranges prior to the hunt as I just have no where around here to reach out much past 100 yards.

Dat's how I do it.

[AtlLaw]

Dat's how I do it.

Actually, me to!    Must be an old man thing...  

About the only real difference is I pick out the ONE bullet I want to use, but usually end up doing it several times as I'm always wanting to try different bullets.  

So we really do the same thing... kinda... only a little different...  

[Scibaer]

ok, now lets back to the loose wimmins that like to do strange things.. 

[Dave in WV]

H4350 is a good choicce for both.

[AtlLaw]

ok, now lets back to the loose wimmins that like to do strange things.. 

H4350 is a good choicce for both.

Both loose wimmins and strange things?     I'm afraid to ask... 

[Sweetwater]

Your choice of powder will work in both rifles, but likely not best in both, unless they both wear 22"-24" barrels. If your 7mm-08 happens to be one of the carbines, you will find a faster powder may be better, like Ball(C)2, W748 or others in that burning rate. Just something I read back when those 'shortys' hit the market. One of the rags ran a piece on the 7mm-08 Carbine and was able to get factory ballistics for a 22" barrel out of the 18" barrel using a faster powder than what was in the factory ammo.  Just a memory now.

[Graybeard]

Your choice of powder will work in both rifles, but likely not best in both, unless they both wear 22"-24" barrels. If your 7mm-08 happens to be one of the carbines, you will find a faster powder may be better, like Ball(C)2, W748 or others in that burning rate. Just something I read back when those 'shortys' hit the market. One of the rags ran a piece on the 7mm-08 Carbine and was able to get factory ballistics for a 22" barrel out of the 18" barrel using a faster powder than what was in the factory ammo.  Just a memory now.

Gonna hafta disagree on that one. It falls more into the internet rumor category but really has been around a lot longer than the internet.

Barrel length is not a consideration in what powder to chose. Whatever powder gives the most velocity in a 20" barrel will do the same in a 26" barrel and will do the same in a 14" TC barrel. Now as to accuracy all bets are off but again barrel length has nuttin to do with it just every barrel is gonna tell ya what is most accurate and if ya chose three barrels of same or different lengths you could find each prefers a different powder accuacy wise.

[Lloyd Smale]

4350 is a great powder for any bottle necked round from a 250 sav to a 375 h&h In some cases there may be something better but it is by far my most used rifle powder. I agree with Bill in that barrel lenght has little to no effect on which powder does the best whether it be a handgun or a rifle. I couldnt imagine a loading room without 4350 and 4831 in it. I use alot of ball powders too for ammo i load progressively but for the most part thats just because it meters in powder measures.