Large groups .45 Colt

[Doctor Sam]

Gentlemen:  I backed down from the very high pressure/velocity loads with the Lee Precision 300 grain cast bullet and used a variety of pistol and shotgun powders to try to shrink the groups.  Not much luck with any of them.  Seem to run 4-6" in my Ruger 4 3/4 inch bbl off of sandbags at 25 yards.  And way high as expected.  Yeah, I know, you are going to suggest that someone else shoot this gun.  I can lay them in the ten ring all day long with my S&W .44M or a custom .45 auto.  Brass is prepared as it should be; SP primers, and sized to .452 with alox/beeswax.  Tried moderate loads with Bullseye, HS5, 630, 296, and some old AL5.  All shot to about the same POI with these large groups.  All were 10 shot groups.  No signs of high pressure; primers not flattened and the cases would fall out of the cylinder.  Bullets are seated out and crimpted in place.  The cylinder chambers all mike .452.
Your thoughts/suggestions, please.
Doctor Sam

[Castaway]

The high groups are to be expected.  Big, slow bullet = more barrel time, hence the higher groups.  I gave up on 300 grainers from my Black Hawk for that reason.  Couldn't adjust the rear sight low enough.  As far as the grouping, I'd play around with another powder, and at the risk of starting a contest to see who con pee the furtherst, I'd start with Unique.  Yes, I know it's not the cleanest powder in town, but its reputation with cast bullelts, especially the 45 Colt is hard to beat.

[Mike C]

In several Ruger and other .45 colts I have found best accuracy to be with H-4227.  With a 300gr I would try 18-19 gr.  My favorite .45 load is the hunters supply 275LFN in front of 20gr of H-4227/CCI-350.  The load came from John Taffin, he said in an article somewhere that if a .45 colt (modern) won't shoot with 4227, it won't shoot.

Another feature of 4227 is that for the velocity it gives the load seems much milder to shoot compared to other powders that give similar velocity.     The 20-4227-270LFN load gives 1080 fps out of a 5-1/2" FA.


Mike C

[Doctor Sam]

Thanks, Gentlemen.  I have Unique on hand and will give it a try.  If that doesn't work I will order a can of 4227.  Your load is close to what I am looking for: 300gr at about 900-1000 fps.  I believe that will shoot through a deer or a hog.  And I doubt if either could tell the difference in 275 or 300!
I will see if I can find Hunters Supply on the web.
My Ruger .41M will cut clover leaf patterns at 25 yards.  Any insite on these large groups with the .45?
Thanks again.
Dr. Sam

[MattC]

I couldn't get my ruger to shoot very well with that same mold either until I tried 2400.  Started at 16 grains and worked up to 18.5, groups ran 3-4 inches then at 18 grains shrank to about 2 then at 18.5 shot four through same hole with 2 fliers opening it up to about 2 inches.  Velocity from my 5.5-inch went 1083 with ES of 7!  I was using lee factory crimp die and crimping in the first (makes it longer) cannelure.  

I had worst results with 296, recoil makes the bisley hammer come back and stab me in thumb!

[Lloyd Smale]

never got exception accuarcy with that bullet in any of my guns.

[Lloyd Smale]

another thing your fighting is that that bullet is very simualar to a wfn and is going to be tough to get to shoot with anything but higher end loads.

[Doctor Sam]

Matt C: tried your suggested loads re 2400 as posted on Revolver forum.  Started with 17.0 gr which shot about 3" at 25 yds.  17.5 gr shot best in my short 4 3/4 " bbl at about 1.5 inches.  18.0, 18.5 about the same.  19.0 started to open up again.  All these are 10 shot groups at 25 yards off a sandbag rest.  No excessive recoil or muzzle flash but still way high.  Hope to solve that problem with a new front sight.  Got to get some 4227 and try it.
Many thanks to you all.
Doctor Sam

[MattC]

Dr. Sam,  a ten shot 1.5-inch group is pretty good in my book, glad it worked out for you.  

On my blackhawk, the front sight is staked in a base, I just ordered a higher front sight from Ruger and it fixed my "shootin High" problem in short order.  My Brother's 45 is older 70's production and has a 4-3/4" barrel, but his front sight is a solid piece soldered to the barrel.  We are trying to figure out how to fix it as he is shooting high even with 250 kieths.

Matt

[Lloyd Smale]

you can try to file a little off the top of the rear sight. Go slow though

[1lnbrdg]

DON'T file off the top if it is already shooting high!  It will only shoot higher.  Must find a way to raise the front sight height.

[KSR]

DON'T file off the top if it is already shooting high!  It will only shoot higher.  Must find a way to raise the front sight height.

UMM Lloyd said the REAR sight, filing it down will lower the point of impact.