Author Topic: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action  (Read 1470 times)

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Offline shotgun31

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.40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« on: April 13, 2010, 06:53:20 AM »
Fired some rounds and thought I'd share the pictures.










1/8 cup of black powder (500 grains);  equal amount of flour in an aluminum foil cartridge.  Fuse initiated.
Shotgun

Offline dan610324

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 06:55:40 AM »
no picture or working link   :'(
Dan Pettersson
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interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Double D

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 07:12:11 AM »
500 grains of powder with a 500 grain projectile is a massive overload in a .40 bore.  Suggested maximum safe load as recommended in Matthew Switliks The More Complete Cannoneer from his chart posted by permission in our safe loads and cannon plans sticky is 40 grains of Fg.

Reduce you loads for safety sake so you don't destroy that beautiful cannon...and post us some close up pictures, that is a neat looking gun!

Offline RocklockI

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 07:32:10 AM »
 :o 500 grains in a .40 bore !! yi currumba ! is it rifled ? If not the bullet will not stablize ....?

Also flour is extremly flamable in an air and powder form. So in the bore it may not do anything but once out of the gun ? I've thought of useing it as a pyro enhancment , but as you are over loaded to start with ...extra stored chemical energy on top may not be a good idea .

 :o

Good luck it is a nice looking tube . Is it a Dalgren Boat gun ?

"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline KABAR2

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 07:38:44 AM »
500 grains of powder with a 500 grain projectile is a massive overload in a .40 bore.  Suggested maximum safe load as recommended in Matthew Switliks The More Complete Cannoneer from his chart posted by permission in our safe loads and cannon plans sticky is 40 grains of Fg.

Reduce you loads for safety sake so you don't destroy that beautiful cannon...and post us some close up pictures, that is a neat looking gun!

Actually he is saying .40 scale..... not bore size...... maybe he means 40mm?  powder can for scale would help
it is a fair size cannon look at the bird house.........

O.k. I found a way to get to his photo album and there is a photo with a powder can for scale and a golf ball for ammo
so that gives a better idea of size...........
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

Sed tamen sal petrae LURO VOPO CAN UTRIET sulphuris; et sic facies tonituum et coruscationem si scias artficium

Offline dan610324

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2010, 07:42:32 AM »
a long time ago I found a recommendation on a german site for loadweights with lead ball in small scale cannons
they said 0,15 to 0,2 gram per caliber millimeter
so for a .40 cal thats close to 10 millimeter it should be between 1,5 and 2 grams
approximately 23 to 31 grain

500 grains powder and 500 grains flour ??
was the barrel filled to the muzzle when you had loaded it ??
Dan Pettersson
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interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Double D

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2010, 07:54:10 AM »
Pretty scary sounding isn't it Dan?!

Offline Double D

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2010, 08:02:44 AM »
.40 scale and golf ball caliber with 500 grains is much better. Whew. I remember this gun now, it's totally cool!     
Dahlgren Medium Boat Howitzer on Launch Slide-40 Scale

Offline daninwyoming

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2010, 08:08:03 AM »
To use the chart that "blindly" says 2 ounces FFg or 3 ounces FFFA per in of bore may not be safe. Not having a factor that also looks at the wall thickness and material of the wall would make the discussion meaninless. I would not shoot 6 ounces FFg in a piece a 3 inch diameter muffler tubing. You also have to consider the wall thinkness.

Offline dan610324

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2010, 08:15:46 AM »
he he he , that explain a lot
Dan Pettersson
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better safe than sorry

Offline Double D

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2010, 08:24:34 AM »
Dan, apparently you are not familiar with theses guidelines and their source. They come from The American Artillery Association and the North South Skirmish Association. Those guidelines include the safe design and construction of cannons and mortars.  If you follow the links you will see that they take you to AAA and NSSA websites.

Don't read these excerpts blindly, read them in there totality!   Look around this board and you will see that we we constantly and consistently warn about these  safety guideline--all of them.

You have not seen anyone here on this forum ever suggest loading muffler pipe with anything! Ever!

 

  

 

Offline dan610324

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2010, 08:54:09 AM »
a 3" muffler tubing would be ok if you got a liner in it with minimun 1" walls  ;D
Dan Pettersson
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better safe than sorry

Offline daninwyoming

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2010, 09:03:00 AM »
I am slightly familiar with the guidelines of the American Artillery Association and the North South Skirmish Association. I see they have recommendations as to load size as related to bore diameter, but I do not see where there is a reference to wall thickness or type of material.

This is copied from this website:

1. Powder charges should not exceed 2 oz. of Fg or 3 oz. FFA or Cannon Grade Goex powder per inch of bore diameter. No excessive charges. Use black powder only. 

I'm sorry but I didn't see any reference to wall thickness of material type. Could you point it out to me? 


Offline dan610324

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2010, 09:21:28 AM »
thats for you DD , you know that Im banned from their website  ;D
yeah still is
nssa sucks
Dan Pettersson
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better safe than sorry

Offline Double D

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2010, 09:24:55 AM »
I am slightly familiar with the guidelines of the American Artillery Association and the North South Skirmish Association. I see they have recommendations as to load size as related to bore diameter, but I do not see where there is a reference to wall thickness or type of material.

This is copied from this website:

1. Powder charges should not exceed 2 oz. of Fg or 3 oz. FFA or Cannon Grade Goex powder per inch of bore diameter. No excessive charges. Use black powder only. 

I'm sorry but I didn't see any reference to wall thickness of material type. Could you point it out to me? 



You must not be that familiar:

N-SSA Skirmish Rules
10.2 ELIGIBILITY
Actual or exact scale replicas of Civil War artillery pieces may be fired. The term “Civil War” applies to any artillery piece whose model antedates April 26, 1865. Replicas of artillery pieces must duplicate original pieces. All reproduction barrels must be made of iron, steel or bronze. All reproduction barrels and those original barrels failing inspection must be lined with a bore liner of extruded seamless steel tubing of a minimum ANSI standard and of a minimum 3/8-inch wall thickness.
Figure 10.1
The liner must be closed at the breech end with a steel plug, sweat-fitted into the liner and welded. The breech plug must have a radius of at least 25 percent of the bore radius and be at least 1 inch thick at its thinnest point. (See figure 10.1). All reproduction barrels manufactured after March 1, 1986 must have pictures of the liner and breech plug before and after welding. No reproduction barrel shall be approved after March 1, 1986, which does not have one caliber's thickness of metal surrounding the bore at the breech. (See figure 10.2 for example.) Liner may be affixed by casting barrel around the liner or by other approved methods such as bonding with high strength adhesives. The method of locking liner in barrel shall be approved by the Artillery Ordnance Officer. The gun and its crew must pass the inspection specified in Section 18. A gun crew shall consist of a minimum of 4 members of the organization. Effective 1 February 1996, all artillery pieces must be originals or full-size, exact replicas to be approved.
-


AAA is not quite that specific.

Safety Rules and Procedures for Shooting Muzzleloading Artillery,
of the American Artillery Association


GENERAL INFORMATION

    The following safe shooting procedure presumes the crew is firing blank charges or projectiles with a muzzleloading artillery piece made (or altered) to modem safety standards. (If firing blanks skip Step VII and see Safety Rule 10.) The bore should be lined with seamless steel tubing with a minimum 3/8-inch wall thickness and a yield strength of 85,000 p.s.i. or greater. The breechplug should be threaded and pinned; welded and pinned breechplugs can be equally strong but require expert installation by competent manufacturers. Sand-cored bores are not recommended for shooting. The vent should be drilled in a threaded copper bolt similar to original cannon vent liners of the 1840-1865 period in order to provide an unbroken passage through the casting and the liner, into the bore.


By the way those link in the safe loads and cannon plans sticky point are these same links above.


Offline Cannoneer

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2010, 10:52:07 AM »
Shotgun31,
My memory got kick started when Douglas posted that past GBO link, so at the risk of repeating myself, your Dahlgren boat Howitzer project more than deserves the two Kewpies it recieved.

In your opening post you said that a couple rounds were fired, but the flour and the fact that it looks like you were firing across a road with fuse for ignition makes me think that you baptized your boat gun by firng a few blanks; at least (if that's a residential area) I hope so. ;)

It's hard to see the brass plating on the barrel in the photos, and if its not too much bother, I for one would really appreciate seeing a few more close ups of that beauty.

RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline RocklockI

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2010, 12:11:10 PM »
I missunderstood the post .
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline shotgun31

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2010, 12:55:28 PM »
Thanks for your kind words, BoomJ.  I thought I'd made some of the regulars angry from the tone on the earlier posts so I was laying low.

I haven't plated it yet.  Haven't found a place I'd trust with it.  A powder finishing estimate was just too expensive and apparently adds dimension and I didn't include a dimension for finish.  The trunnion/frame clearance is minimum.

As to loads and process:

I started with about 1/2 ounce of powder and a fuse--200 grains--just enough to make it pop and see how it reacted--how the slide controlled the recoil.

Went up to 1/8 cup, that should weigh between 450 and 500 grains--between 1 ounce and 1 1/4 oz Troy. 

Some of the permanent posts in this forum indicate between 1 1/2 and 2 oz per inch of bore size!  Then a projectile.  Some talk about lead projectiles!   I think my load is reasonable;  it's performance is satisfactory in this 1 3/4 inch bore gun and it works.
Shotgun

Offline RocklockI

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2010, 01:04:20 PM »
You scared me to death and I'm fearless  ;D

It looks great with my new understanding of the scale .

Gary 
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Double D

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2010, 01:58:47 PM »
Thanks for your kind words, BoomJ.  I thought I'd made some of the regulars angry from the tone on the earlier posts so I was laying low.
 

I don't think you made anyone angry, jealous maybe, because no of us could get away with putting a cannon on the kitchen table with out the wife gomng dwon on us like a ton of bricks!!!

Offline Zulu

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2010, 02:13:03 PM »
I could. ;D
Zulu

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Offline Double D

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2010, 02:18:17 PM »
Oh, now I see why you thought folks were angry with you...the fellows got a little silly at the end of your thread...forgive them they do tend to get carried away sometimes  and loose track of where they are...had nothing to do with you.  Be patient with them, they are harmless and actually pretty decent guys once you get to know them.

Offline lance

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2010, 04:40:54 PM »
COOL boatgun, that's something you don't get to see everyday.
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline BoomLover

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Re: .40 Scale Dahlgren Boatgun in Action
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2010, 09:52:37 PM »
I remember this one from the first posting...it was a beauty then, and it still is now! great Job! BoomLover
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!