44 Mag Loads- More Questions

[gingus]

I've been working up some loads with 2400 under 240 XTP's with very good results. I have some 296 and want to try a couple "lighter" loads with that powder. Looking at the 7th edition of Hornady, their starting load is 24.0 grains then up to 24.5, then 25.0, and a max load of 25.5. Looking at Lyman 49, their start load with H-110, is 22.5 grains with a max of 23.5. Both load suggestions come from the TC sections. Why such a dramatic difference in the grain weights? Hornady lists WLP primers and Hornady brass, both of which I have. Lyman lists CCI 350 primers (I do not have). Is it safe (a good practice for a beginner) to "start" at Hornady's 24.0 grains (using 240 XTP's)? Can I start lower than 24.0 grains and still use the same components (WLP primers and Hornady brass)? If so, what grain weight should I start with? I appreciate all the assistance you gentleman have given in the past with my questions on 44 mag loads. Any additional information/comments/suggestions would also be appreciated. Thanks, Gingus

[Bigeasy]

Gingus

Different brass, primers, and guns means different peak pressures.  Some reloading manuals pressure test their loads with various methods, including electronic transducers, and case head expansion.  It is these differences that result in different loading recommendations.  You notice most load recommendations end with the caveat "the load tested was safe in the gun used".  That is why it is always a good idea to start 10% below, and work your way up.  By the way, 296 is not a good reduced load powder.  It works best at full pressure.  Unique is a good mid range powder, and I have had good luck using Red Dot for light target loads.

Larry

[41 mag]

Since back in the early 80's I have loaded quite a few different powders, bullets, brass, and primer combo's for my 44. Time and time again I seem to always come back to 23grs of 296 for my most often used load. This weight was from the Winchester powder manual, and is also listed for two 240gr loads in the Lyman 48th edition.

Using WLP's and this powder and various 240gr bullets, as well as different cases, I have found the load to be for the most part, easy on the hand, and more accurate out to 100yds than I can hold it in field shooting, and very decisive on most critters hit with them.

I decided several years ago that the Remington 240gr SJHP was about as good an all around bullets as I had shot based upon my shooting needs and have since been using them almost exclusively since.

I can also say that the Hornady bullets have shot very well and in most cases been a tad more accurate from a rest off the bench, but in taking hogs within 50 - 80yds in a hunting situation, which is normally catching them as they break cover, I have not noticed much if any difference in performance.

The one thing I have found to make or break the load has been the crimp used. I found that by having just enough crimp to hold the bullet in place at the bottom edge of the cannalure would produce the most consistent and accurate rounds. More often than not I see folks who use 110 or 296 using a crimp that looks more like it swedged the case into the bullet, than simply rolling it into the grove. I highly suggest that you experiment with a couple of different settings before locking the die down for a one crimps fits all. Also it does help if you trim your cases at least once to the same length, this will help uniform the crimp from one to the next as well.

Good luck with your loads. Hope this helps.

[Cheesehead]

Bigeasy is right about Red Dot. It is great for medium and light loads. It is a very common shotgun powder found in most gun stores at a reasonable price. The powder charges are  1/3  or less compared to 2400, more savings. The 8 pound jug is the best buy.

Cheese

[Grumulkin]

I've been working up some loads with 2400 under 240 XTP's with very good results. I have some 296 and want to try a couple "lighter" loads with that powder. Looking at the 7th edition of Hornady, their starting load is 24.0 grains then up to 24.5, then 25.0, and a max load of 25.5. Looking at Lyman 49, their start load with H-110, is 22.5 grains with a max of 23.5. Both load suggestions come from the TC sections. Why such a dramatic difference in the grain weights? Hornady lists WLP primers and Hornady brass, both of which I have. Lyman lists CCI 350 primers (I do not have). Is it safe (a good practice for a beginner) to "start" at Hornady's 24.0 grains (using 240 XTP's)? Can I start lower than 24.0 grains and still use the same components (WLP primers and Hornady brass)? If so, what grain weight should I start with? I appreciate all the assistance you gentleman have given in the past with my questions on 44 mag loads. Any additional information/comments/suggestions would also be appreciated. Thanks, Gingus

It would be OK to start at 22.5 gr. H110/Win. 296 provided bullet construction is similar (i.e., jacketed bullet of the same weight).  It's also fine to use your WLP primers with whatever brass you like.  It's likely that accuracy won't be quite as good with the lighter load but who knows until you try it.

As for why the different data?  I don't really know but just a different powder lot could make that much difference.  Actually, in regards to contradictory data; I've seen much worse.  That's why it's good to compare data from several reloading manuals and make a common sense decision though in the final analysis, you'll have to decide what's safe in your gun.

[Steve P]

My heavy 44 mag loads use 2400.
My mild 44 mag loads use Unique.
Anything in between uses 4227.

Depends how hard you want to hold that grip.

Steve

[beerbelly]

I stopped a the gun shop and picked up some 296. I had been loading some plinking loads with Tightgroup. But when I tried to load full mag loads I just was not getting the velocity. It was coming through my crony at 1140 FPS. But was kicking like a full mag load.
  Well with the 296 I got an average speed of 1343, with a standard spread of 19 FPS.  I thought boy this is like a factory load. I had loaded the starting load in Lyman’s 49 of 23grains. Max is 24 grains.
     Well I had a factory round in my pocket. It was made by the Hansen Cartridge Company and said combat on the box. That thing went through the traps at 1618 FPS!
   How ever if when I load enough of them to see what kind of accuracy I am getting, I think 1343 will just fine for me. If any of you are using 296, what kind of speeds are you getting?
                                     Beerbelly

[gingus]

Thanks Gents for the active discussion. Grumulkin- per your comments, it is ok then to start at 22.5 grains of 296 with 240 Grain XTP's and work up from there if needed? I have mixed brass of once fired Hornady and new Starline and will stay with the WLP unless a change is needed. Obviously, I am new and want to make sure I am staying within safe tolerances in all loads. As I stated earlier, my encore 12 inch 44 really likes the 2400 and is a joy to shoot the lighter loads. Actually, it makes me look like I actually know how to shoot!!  I appreciate everyones assistance, and surely will be asking for more. Thanks, Gingus

[buck460XVR]

I too have found 23-23.5 gr of H110/W296 under any quality 240 gr bullet to be very accurate and my favorite hunting load outta my PC629 Magnum Hunter. For medium velocity loads I have switched over from 2400 to IMR4227. For me, it  works very well in both my long piped .44 and .460. For Plinkers, you can't beat Unique.

[KansasPaul]

If using 296 you really need to be careful with reduced loads.  Winchester warns in their reloading data that reduced loads of 296 can result in excessive pressure.  Some load data is available on the internet at Winchester's web site.

[41 mag]

Beerbelly,

Your right in the ball park of where my loads chrono. I have found this velocity to be just right for most of my handgun hunting needs. Nice and accurate, easy on the hand. When using the Remington 240gr SJHP's I have found this load to work exceptionally well on just about anything. I have shot just about every bullet from 180 up to 300grs and find these are not only cheaper but work just as well and are just as accurate.

I could not tell you how they compared to factory rounds as I do not believe that I have ever run any factory through it.

Gingus,

I don't believe you will have any issues with the  22.5gr load of 296 using the Winchester primers. I wouldn't however back off it much more if any than that. I have found in several 44's that between 23 and 24grs of 296 I got the most consistent accuracy and best performances from overall loads. Yes you can crank up the velocity a bit more, but you also crank up the recoil and open up groups.

When I was starting out I like to have loads that blew huge fireballs and ran bullets at top end velocities. Now I am happy with those which are easy on my hands, and will hit as close to the same place as i can get them. I use mine for hogs up close and personal and in the thick brush you want a controlled recoil for a quick follow up if needed. Hard hitting loads are fine, but not for reaquiring the target or low light situations.

Good luck, with your loads and hope this helps.

[dpe.ahoy]

I've used 24.0 gr H110/296 under the 240 gr XTP for more years than I care to think about.  It's always been an accurate load in my rifles and my revolvers.  That load has taken 20+ mule deer and more than a few whitetails, never recovered a bullet.  The ONLY time it didn't drop em with in a step or two was when the butt stock broke on a lever action when I shot, bullet went way left and low.  Broke a hind leg and split the belly open but the deer went over 100 yd on that shot.  Took over an hour to find it using a flashlight in the brush that was waist high, not much blood but little pieces of bone left  for the first 25-30 yd.  Some times "stuff happens".  DP

[Ak.Hiker]

41 Mag
I would be interested in how those Remington 240 grain SJHP bullets penetrate on hogs. Also are you getting much expansion? Sounds like you have found the perfect load for your needs.

[41 mag]

41 Mag
I would be interested in how those Remington 240 grain SJHP bullets penetrate on hogs. Also are you getting much expansion? Sounds like you have found the perfect load for your needs.

Hiker,

Most of the hogs I have shot with this load were around the 150# class. Penetration has not been an issue and I have yet to recover a bullet on any of them. Based upon what the skinned out hogs look like they are expanding, and making a nice ever widening path on their way through. Most times they leave roughly a quarter sized exit. 

My best friend took a nice sized doe one year using this load at about 40yds. The shot entered just behind the onside shoulder and exited through the offside shoulder. The doe hit the ground like she was hit by a bus. Damage was massive and the whole offside shoulder and most of the neck and rib cage were bloodshot.

I have not found this to be the case on the hogs I have taken. Maybe they just soak it up better, not sure. Most of these have been taken at less than 30yds and some were in the 5yd range. Just depended on where they were and how we were after them. So far I have not found any reason to question this load or bullet. Possibly if the load were more on the top end of the scale, it might behave differently, but like it is, it just simply works.

[PawPaw]

My standard .44 Magnum load is 19.0 grains of Alliant 2400 under a 240 LSWC with Wolf large pistol primers.  That load gives me 1345 fps from my 7.5" Ruger and is a fairly standard load. It's not yet to the maximum, but you can tell you've got a handful.

My standard .44 Special load is that same bullet over 7.5 grains of Unique.  My notes tell me that this particular load was recommended by no less than Skeeter Skelton and I find that it gives me 971 fps out of that same Ruger and is plenty of medicine for 95% of my handgunning.

[gypsyman]

Many, many, many, thousands of rounds at silhouette match's, in .44 and .357, using W296/H110. Clean burning, and accurate. Use it in 240-280 gr. bullets.180-210 gr. bullets in the .357. Best powder for the heavy bullets, as far as I'm concerned. gypsyman