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Offline teamnelson

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Crisis in Greece
« on: May 05, 2010, 07:20:37 PM »
* new link
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703961104575225472577513414.html?mod=WSJ_economy_LeftTopHighlights


Let's see, tens of thousands on the streets protesting violently ... with a population of only 11 million, yeah, that's a good percentage. Never happen here, right?  ???
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Greece
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2010, 02:54:43 AM »
The link is dead.
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: Greece
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2010, 03:02:30 AM »
Yep, dead link. Although I probably know what it's about. Yea, your right TN. We're all so happy under the the big O, nobody would want to protest here. Somebody want to pass me a cup of Lipton!!gypsyman :o
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2010, 07:46:38 AM »
Fixed.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2010, 08:22:22 AM »
Why worry about a link. Just turn the TV on and watch it live. They just interview Stuart Varney and he said the STATES are in the same shape Greece is in ESPECIALLY California, and New York. The Fed however has a printing press, and is gonna bail them out.
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Offline Sourdough

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2010, 08:39:53 AM »
Yea, the Greeks live in what some call a Nanny State.  They want to be taken care of. 

I was there in 1984 when they were rioting against the Air Force Base in Athens because the Air Force was not paying enough to the Greek civilian employees.  They were pulling Americans out of their cars and setting the cars on fire, then beating up the Americans.  I was on an AF buss when the rioting started.  I changed clothes and left the buss, taking a young female Lt heading to Ankara Turkey with me.  Myself and the AF Lt hid out in an Athens hotel for two weeks.  Since she spoke fluent French we pretending to be French tourist.   
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Offline Dee

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2010, 12:32:54 PM »
As I understand it, most of the good folks burning their own village in Greece, are UNION WORKERS.
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2010, 01:06:15 PM »
AP news said the riots were organized by the comunist party.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20100506/D9FHH4RO1.html

"By ELENA BECATOROS
Demonstrators banging drums and shouting anti-government slogans through bullhorns, unfurled a giant black banner outside parliament earlier Thursday. More than 30,000 demonstrators filled downtown streets, chanting "They declared war. Now fight back."

Prime Minister George Papandreou expelled three Socialist deputies who dissented in the vote, reducing the party's number of seats to 157 in the 300-member parliament.

"We have done what was necessary, not what was easy," Finance Minister George Papaconstantinou said after the vote. "Without these measures, we'd be thrown into the deepest recession this country has ever known."

The bulk of Thursday's protest - organized by the Greek Communist Party - quickly dispersed, leaving about 5,000 demonstrators outside parliament before police pushed them back.

Protester Thodoris Mougiakos said he was angry the IMF would control Greek finances.

"It's blackmail," the 32-year-old engineer said. "There is money, but they spend it on things like armaments and businesses. The church has money too. If we had been drawing money from all these sources, we wouldn't be in this situation now,"
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Offline bearmgc

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2010, 01:25:12 PM »
Too many insolvant countries were allowed into the Euro, countries that really didn't meet the original criteria for admission or barely met it. If Greece was still using the drachma, their currency would simply be devalued and Europe wouldn't be flippin' biscuits right now. Germany's Angela Merkel has been pushing for monies to bail them out, when her own country is screaming bankrupt threats looming. Her people do not want to bail out Greece, but instead demand that she direct her focus at her own people and economy. Sounds kinda familiar...
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Offline saddlebum

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2010, 01:28:59 PM »
Quote from: Dee on May 06, 2010, 12:32:54 PM
As I understand it, most of the good folks burning their own village in Greece, are UNION WORKERS.

I also found it very interesting that the union folks are pitching a fit at the government for wanting to cut some wages and pensions to try to pay down their national debt. The same unsustainable wages and pensions the unions pitched a fit to get. The government backed the unions, the unions supported the government that backed them and now it's unsustainable and crashing. I guess unions just want to drive off a cliff instead of stopping short of economic meltdown.......Sounds familar, where have I heard something like this before........hmmm??
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Offline bearmgc

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2010, 01:41:05 PM »
Yeah, that dOES sound familiar...... ::)
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2010, 02:24:18 PM »
Quote from: saddlebum on May 06, 2010, 01:28:59 PM
I also found it very interesting that the union folks are pitching a fit at the government for wanting to cut some wages and pensions to try to pay down their national debt. The same unsustainable wages and pensions the unions pitched a fit to get. The government backed the unions, the unions supported the government that backed them and now it's unsustainable and crashing. I guess unions just want to drive off a cliff instead of stopping short of economic meltdown.......Sounds familar, where have I heard something like this before........hmmm??

It's a problem vaguely resembling the "not in my backyard" phenomenon.  Doesn't matter if the wages need to be reduced.  Doesn't even matter if you CONVINCE the people that it really needs to be done.  Everyone wants to make sure it happens to someone ELSE.  Problem is it has to happen to someone, and no one wants to budge.

Compare to a stampede in a theater.  Someone yells fire.   If everyone moved out in an orderly fashion, things would be fine.  But that doesn't happen.  SOMEONE runs.  Then everyone runs.  Then, even if you know good and well that people shouldn't be running, if you don't want to be trampled to death you better run too.

From what I've been hearing, if I was in Greece (as a private citizen) I'd personally be planning about what to do after the collapse happens, rather than trying to prevent the inevitable. 

All this is proving though, that modern economies are fragile things.  When everyone is farming and growing their own food the worst you have to worry about is a drought or force of nature.  Through modern economics we can delegate work so that people can do a wider variety of things and enjoy a better life, but when things go wrong the whole thing topples much easier.

One benefit if things really do go south is that the USA has a fairly low population density and a lot of farmland.  When it comes to covering the basics, we're in a very good position.
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Offline Dee

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2010, 04:20:52 AM »
Well the good new is, that the U.S. is borrowing, and then contributing, 17% of the monies to bail them out. Fear not though, for as soon as we get those Republicans back in next election, all this will be straightened out.
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Offline MGMorden

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2010, 04:23:42 AM »
Quote from: TM7 on May 07, 2010, 03:20:43 AM
Now are you suggesting that vast land reform would be required...because in the US of A most land owners don't take kindly to other folks setting up unpaid tenancy on their property?

Nope.  Just basics.  Land is good for farming.  In the absence of a regular economy farmers will still need to sell off their crop - for whatever is available, OR, if things really get bad, they'll have to start hiring sharecroppers to work the land if gas and other technological means become unavailable.

That's best case (of the worst case :)) scenario though.  In a true meltdown - I'm talking complete government collapse - land ownership would quickly become irrelevant.  Right or wrong, 1 guy on a 200 acre plot is never going to convince a mob to starve because he can produce a deed.  That's just the reality of the situation.
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Offline torpedoman

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2010, 03:44:42 PM »
gonna cost your household 374 bucks to bail out the greeks. are you having fun yet?
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Offline The Hermit

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2010, 01:02:59 PM »
Greece will soon be followed by Spain, Ireland and Italy. The IMF is pushing this as a "WORLD" problem requiring a one world governement fix. In Greece, they expect to work 20-25 years and be able to retire off the state and we know what the outcome of that will be. There is no free lunch.
Look for more fraud, welfare, and financial abuses in the world and please don't think it can't effect you.
The one hour melt down in the market just cost me $60 K in computerized trading, and I had nothing to do with Greece. Europe, the far east and most of south america is in bad financial shape. Look for more riots, bombings and trouble. We are only about 6 meals away from anarchy. Hopefully, most GB type folks are prepared.

   The Hermit
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Offline BBF

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Re: Crisis in Greece
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2010, 04:24:19 AM »

[/quote]

Now are you suggesting that vast land reform would be required...because in the US of A most land owners don't take kindly to other folks setting up unpaid tenancy on their property?

..TM7
[/quote]

It wouldn't just be setting up tenancy, they would expect to be watered and fed.
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