.454 casull?

[40plus]

Is the .454 really worth it?
With the muzzle blast and sharp/snappy recoil is the .454 really worth shooting?
.44 mag ammo exists that matches the .454. Also the .44 is able to shoot in certain production guns and can load a full 6 shot chambering. There exists some As i know there are only two companies offering .454 chamberings in double and single action. Double action: Ruger and Taurus    Single Action: BFR and Freedom Arms. There are alot of custom conversions available from quality gunsmiths; however, if you were to get a conversion made why wouldnt you just go to .475. Heavier bullets, same velocity or faster and less pressure on the handgun. Does the .454 really have a niche or does the .454 simply exist between heavy .44 mag and .45 colt and the .475 linebaugh for sake of existing? What do you think?...

[Lloyd Smale]

first ill say that the 44 will not match the 454. thats like saying a 3006 will match a 300mag. Sure they will both kill the same animal but the 300 is definatley more powerful. The 454 does have a niche. It in most cases is built on guns much stronger then the 45 colts and 44 mags so will take a lifetime of heavy loads. IVe shot 6 shot rugers loose trying to run loads that are gravy in a 454. It also has the ability to run lighter jacketed bulets to much higher velocitys and thus making it a viable long range  handgun for someone thats into that. That doesnt consern me much as i dont shoot jacketed bullets but then im not everyone. Sure the 475 has advantages. It will handle heavier bullets with bigger metplats at the same sectional density. Theres a price to pay though. Loading componets, molds ect are available but usualy cost a bit more and are harder to find. To make the 475 more powerful then a 454 your going to be stepping up to a differnt notch in recoil. Thats just phyisics. Push  a 400 grain bullet in a gun to 1400 fps and its going to kick more then a 350 grain bullet going the same speed. Everyone has a recoil limit. Me personaly i dont have a problem with the 475 or 500 but refuse to shoot a linebaugh max anymore. There admitingly to much for me. Ive got a FA 454. Its a wonderful gun and is very accurate. I also have an identical twin in 475 and a linebaugh built 475 and to be honest the 475s get used 5 times more then the 454 and i probably shoot more 5 times more 44 mag then all of them put together. They all have ther niche and it would be pretty boring shooting the same thing everyday.

[Ak.Hiker]

I purchaced a Ruger Super Redhawk in 454 several years ago to carry when in bear country. I did have the barrel cut down to 5.5 inches for easier carry. If you enjoy big bore handguns you will love it. Mid power handloads that run 300 grain bullets at 1400 are fairly easy on the wrist compared to the full power loads running at 1600+. With a non expanding bullet you are talking some serious penetration.

[40plus]

.44 mag +p+ 340gr bullet at 1450fps compared to a .454 360gr at 1425fps compared to a .475 420gr at 1350

I guess the advantage lies in the lighter faster bullets though with a better trajectory. Maybe I am just over analyzing the numbers. Numbers arent everything. I think the .454 has its place. I was just curious on what other people thought...

[Lloyd Smale]

40 plus you hit it on the head. Numbers dont mean much. what your not taking into account is that if all of those bullets are say lfns the meplat on the 475 would be as large as a wfn in 44 or 45 and it still has the sectional density to allow for penetration and good bullet flight and also has the added bonus of 70 grains of weight. Anohter fact when comparing your numbers is the 454 is being pushed to 1400 fps and you are right on the border of pushing a cast bullet even out of the best alloys to fast to keep from deforming when it hits big bone. A fairer comaparison if you wanted ideal performance with cast bullets out of all of them would be to push them to 1300fps. Now im talking using them for truely large game. Sure you could push a cast or jacketed bullet to even 2000 fps and kill a whitetail but you can also kill a whitetail with a 44 special shooting a 250 at 800 fps. to me anyway the purpose of these guns is breaking down animals that weight over 500 lbs. Sure ive hunted whitetail with them but they also are called on to hunt things i wouldnt take a smaller gun to do. truth be know that any one of them will kill any animal the other will but if faced with an angry wounded animal id sure like to have a 475 or 500 in my hand. they just hurt them more. Just like a 458 hurts an animal more then a 338.

[44 Man]

Yup, I agree with Lloyd completely!  But for myself, I have come to the place where 'enough gun' is enough.  I'm totally content with Ruger level .45 colt loads or 300 gr cast in the 44 Mag as 'enough' for any of my purposes.  Sure, I lusted over the .454 when it came out, as I did the .475 and .500.  Were I going hunting for the big bears, or to Africa, I'd have one.  But for my purposes and enjoyment, I no longer feel a need for those types of guns.  Enough is enough for me.  44 Man

[EdK]

I have to come to the defense of the 454 here. Why? Well, first muzzle blast & snappy recoil are objected to. Fine, if one is going to shoot 240gr factory ammo you are correct however one does not have to, I certainly do not and later a 360gr 454 loading is referenced which I assume to be hard cast - a little apples and oranges comparison don't you think?

As Lloyd pointed out it is all physics. In straight wall cases of varying bore diameters but with pressure and projectile weights similar the velocity plot is a straight curve. In other words a 44 is not "well behaved", the 454 "a beast", the 475 "well behaved", etc. Go load a 180gr Hornady XTP in your 44 with an absolute max load in your S&W mountain gun and see how you like it. My guess is blindfolded it might be hard to tell you were not shooting 240gr 454 factory ammo. The blast and muzzle flip will be nasty. It is true that the 454 was conceived as a speed demon but in the 1960s ammo makers were trying to do that with just about everything - witness the high velocity 38 cal efforts of that era. Do we still load our 357s with 110gr loads? Not so much. We don't have to do that with our 454s either.

I should mention that I also own 44s and 475s. I also have 45 Colts in SAA format. I used to have Rugers in 45 Colt until I discovered something interesting: For the price of a Ruger + action job + base pin + upgraded sights + grips that fit as well as a FA you can own a FA in 454. I believe Lloyd has also "discovered" this.

Don't overlook bargains in BFRs either. To the detriment of existing owners, Magnum Research has been consistently dumping various calibers on the market at prices well below wholesale - a good way to get your 475 if you decide to go that way.

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess to me want and need are in two completely seperate catagorys and because i only have a few more years on this world i focus on the want. I dont shoot my 454 475s and 500s or hunt with them everytime but they sure are fun to take out and exercise once in a while. No doubt anything ive ever shot could have been cleanly taken with a 44 mag (my favorite caliber) but what fun would that be. Cool thing about them is they dont have to be loaded up to wrist snapping levels to have fun with. Lobbing 450 grain .50s at a 1000 fps and seeing how they smack things is a hoot and they do it with no more recoil the a heavy 44 or 45 load and the recoil is slower and the muzzle blast much less then the 44 and 45. You can load the big guns down to the power level of a smaller one but cant go the other way. Bottom line is that for about 99 percent of the shooters a 44 or 45 colt is all they need and for the most part all they should buy. They take some dedication to master and most arent willing to do that and just end up ruining the shooting skills theyve developed over the years by aquiring a big flinch. But enough Lewis? there not T rex shooting guns and someone on your level could easily master one and be truthfull now. Dont you somewhere in the cabinet have a magnum rifle of some caliber thats a bit big for shooting those down state deer or even a 4570 thats got much more power then a 500 linebaugh? 

Yup, I agree with Lloyd completely!  But for myself, I have come to the place where 'enough gun' is enough.  I'm totally content with Ruger level .45 colt loads or 300 gr cast in the 44 Mag as 'enough' for any of my purposes.  Sure, I lusted over the .454 when it came out, as I did the .475 and .500.  Were I going hunting for the big bears, or to Africa, I'd have one.  But for my purposes and enjoyment, I no longer feel a need for those types of guns.  Enough is enough for me.  44 Man

[mk454]

well everyone has their opinions.  the load you refer to in the .44 mag and the 454 are buffalo bore loads, the .44 is no good in anything but a ruger srh because the bullet is long and the .454 round you refer to is stated as being not loaded to max.  that .44 mag round is right with any of buffalo bore .475 or .500 linebaugh loads.  the velocity advantage of the .454 is not a big deal on anything but trajectory unless you have expandable that will hold together like the barnes bullets.  shooting mild 250 barnes loads out of my .454 10" at nearly 1800fps and the hotter corbons at nearly 1900fps chrony'd sure do make more of a thump than any .44 mag round i've shot and to be honest, more than the hardcast out of my .475.  of course that bullet expands to over an inch and retains over 99% on the ones i've shot into sand/gravel piles, never recovered one out of an animal.  lynn thompson shot a white rhino head on with a corbon penetrator out of his .454 and the bullet exited the rear of the animal, not sure how much more penetration one could want or need but the .454 shines with it's versatility.  i load it up with a 250 hardcast to 950 fps for the kiddos on deer.  i routinely shoot 300 gr hardcasts out of my 7.5" barreled 454 at 1200 fps and they are very very mild and much less snappy than the equivalent .44 mag loads.  i sold my .475 b/c i was dealing with 3 kiddos shooting pistols and being very very much interested in them.  a .475 shooting a 370 grain hardcast at 1000fps still had too much recoil for the 12 year old to enjoy but a .45 colt blackpowder equivalent load is a snap in the .454  and will kill any deer just as dead.  gives them alot of room to grow. 

then we could get into some of double taps loads.  400 grains at 1400fps and 360 grains at 1500fps.  335 gr at 1600fps, well they stretch the limits of what a hardcast could and should do but they're there.  that versatility is why the .454 is where it is and the others are where they are.  they all have their place and if i were 65 and didn't have the eyesight i have and was a touch more recoil sensitive i may have gone and stuck with the .475 but as it is my .454 will kill anything the .475 will and gives me soooo many more options.  my 10" barreled FA is my deer and elk hunter with fast light grained barnes and FA softpoint bullets.  my 7.5" is for running nice mild heavy hardcast rounds out of it and i use it for buff and hogs.  i also have a .45 acp cylinder for the longer barreled gun which makes for some great practice even my 9 year old can enjoy.  to me, for what i shoot and the bullets i do it with, the .475 doesn't really add anything and to truly eclipse the .454 imho it has to be loaded to what ends up being just an intolerable amount of recoil.  but we all have our limits.  there's those that may feel a 50AK is just the ticket in a revolver, i am not one of those, that to me is a novelty.  my .44 mag loads truly just don't hit as hard as the fast expandable 454 loads i shoot which doesn't matter on deer but i get raking pass throughs on quartering away shots with the barnes loads and even with 300 grain xtps and my elk have fallen "right there" after their shoulders get broke on the way out.

[mk454]

and i'll go on record and say that with careful loading of the right bullets, the .44 mag is all anyone "needs" on anything.  it is definitely one of my favorites.  lloyd nailed it on that one and i would agree with everything he writes, except i just don't use hardcast bullets, i use both expandable and hardcasts.  if you want to just shoot hardcasts at a sedate velocity and get super penetration and keep your range limited, they're all irrelevant cuz a .500 linebaugh is the ticket.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive just had to many failures with jacketed ammo especially hp. One in expansion is great in a picture but we shot buffalo with cast hollow point 500 linebaugh ammo. Bullets were 480 grain as shot and they gave perfect expansion. Probably double cailber and lost little if any weight. Problem was that big expanded bullet acted like a parachute and only penetrated 6 to 8 inchs into a buffalo. We shot 3 that day and also a couple 150 lb sheep and all had to be put down by a differnt gun. Ive also watched pigs hit with 240 jhp 44s and 210 41s run off with a big welt on them when the bullet did penetrate. Buddy shot a 290 lb black bear with 250xtps out of a 45 colt ruger going 1200 fps. He put three shots into the bear and none made it to the vitals and the bear hand to be put down with an 06. Now granted ive seen them kill too but they just dont have the reliablity i want in a handgun bullet. Now push them to 2000 fps and they will do one of two things. they will either kill like the hand of thor or fail miserably. Depending on how good or lucky of a shot you make. I will also consede that a 44 mag is not a 454. But in a blackhawk or better yet a redhawk it can be handloaded up to a point where if using cast bullets it will push them to optimum velocitys. the 454 can only push they to fast after that. I dont poke away at deer 200 yards out with a sixgun. to me thats rifle hunting teritory and find the differnce in trajectory at a 100 yards between a 454 and a 44 special isnt enough to worry about. I sight my sixguns in at 50 yards and neither round needs holdover at a 100. I guess we can argue toill were blue in the face. everyone likes something differnt and thats what makes the world go around. SBottom line though is a 44 mag cant isnt as powerful as a 454 and a 454 isnt as powerful as a 475, its the same as claiming a 257weatherby is more powerful then a 300 mag because it shoots faster. 

[mk454]

i think it's more like comparing a 270 weatherby to a 300mag.  85 grains really really fast versus 180 grain bullets really fast. the difference of 40 to 60 grains isn't much at all b/w the .454 and .475.  funny the only failures i've had were from hardcasts out of a 45/70 and my 475 linebaugh.  i have seen miserably results from the various 500's and the .475's and my hypothesis is b/c the 454 is high enough on the pressure level that the various xtps and the the FA hollowpoints had to be built stout enough to not erode the cone also holds them together.  hell, my 300 grain xtps hold together being shot into a hill of sand and gravel.  that said, i haven't had the best luck with .44 hollowpoints except the barnes and the 300 grain xtps.  you're right though, we could argue till we're blue in the face but the fact is that there's just not one way to get there.  there's two.  both heavy hardcasts and fast expandables will do it, the .454 does both exceptionally well.


those 250 xtps are being pushed to fast for there construction but not fast enough to get decent penetration with that caliber and expansion.  they are flying trashcans.  the increase in resistance to penetration increases exponentially and takes a corresponding exponential rise in energy to get the penetration, if that rise in energy creates an increase in expansion and therefore even more resistance to penetration.  ALL of the .500 caliber hp's with the exception of the barnes in the SW 500's have been made not near stout enough to not just turn into that "parachute" and they get miserable penetration most of the time.  i've seen much better penetration with expandables from the .460 or .454.  the .475 can do it but must be pushed to such a velocity level the recoil is just insane.  i didn't like it and the .475 xtps are much "softer" than those xtp mags for the .454.