22 rifle vs pistol

[45-70.gov]

  Those 22lr/22mag convertable revolvers are certainly versatile little items.

22 mag  revolver  =  22 lr in a rifle

Couger, you're right!  Maybe a T/C Contender is the way!  If you start with a pistol frame and a .22 10" barrel, and then get the carbine stocks and a 16" or even 21" carbine barrel, you could have a great setup.  The black plastic stock set weighs less than the wood one, so you could have a very lightweight setup.

Don't know if you're interested WoodChukHntr, but on another site one fellow who lives in Florida has posted MANY TIMES about how he and his 21inch T/C Contender with CB Shorts has put a significant dent in the FL wild pig population!  Usually shoots them inside of 30ft and only where the spine meets the skull.

He includes pictures in his posts and his reports seem quite consistent in his claims.

PM me if you want details on the other board and finding his posts.   

As for a T/C firearm I'd try to have a rimfire barrel fitted to an Encore rather than a Contender.  I did get lucky in finding a Versa-Pack .22LR barrel that snaps right onto my Hand-Rifle frame, but thats still a rifle and not a HG.  Whats funky about it is that the Versa-Pack barrel is stubbed and canted [downward] just enough so the centerfire pin strikes the rimfire rim.  But I agree a Contender makes a great rig with smaller cartridges.  (The Encore can handle a .30/06!!).

cb  on  a  pig??   maybe  babies

cb  will  kill a cat ok....... but i quit using  them for  problem cats
as  they  were noticeably  slower  to but  them down to  a real 22lr

[teamnelson]

I like the low/no powder .22 loads for certain chores, but my semis dont like them. Although I've yet to try them in a ciener slide for 1911 ... talk about a light action, and smooth!

The reason for my original criteria that it be .22 is that a survivalist has no means to process large game on a frequent basis. I'm assuming no refrigeration, and only field harvesting abilities. Also, I don't want to leave a large kill site, as would be associated with a deer. We're all going to be able to smell blood at a distance after awhile. Meat sources will most likely be small game & former pets, in which case a low/no powder .22 load, CB shorts, etc. are great. I've found them to work excellently in a rogue chipmunk mini-bolt, as well as long barreled revolvers.

[buffermop]

Definitly a rifle, either a pump or a lever.  More cartridge capacity and less likely to jam up with any type of cartridge.

[Almtnman]

TN, the no powder loads are another reason for using a revolver instead of an automatic, they simply won't function in an automatic but do good in a revolver. And as I mentioned, they will work in a short barrel bolt or single shot rifle, but not in an automatic. They are great for doing those little chores that you mentioned when you don't want to disturb your neighbors.  

If one is in a true survivalist mode and doesn't want to give his/her location out, you simply don't want to make a lot of noise.

[jlwilliams]

  As much fun as the CBs are, the full power 22 with a silencer is more punch without drawing attention.  Don't get me wrong, I use the CBs and the Aguilla quiet rounds too.  Great stuff.  In the context of the thread's premise a suppresssed pistol (with and without a detachable stock) or short barreled rifle makes the most sense to me.

[45-70.gov]

i  use  the  CB   LONG  in the ruger  auto

you  just manually work the bolt

NO  CB  shorts  they will  not  feed  in my gun  even  manually

[schoolmaster]

I've owned a Nylon 66 for nearly 50 years and it has never failed to fire and I have had only one jam when I inadvertantly put a 22 shot cartridge in the magazine. When that round went off, the fired case was too long to eject and had to be dug out. It has never had to go to the gunsmith, is very accurate, and light weight. The tube fed magazine is slow to load and the capacity is 14 plus one. It spent a lot of time under the front seat of my trucks as an all purpose rifle when needed. I have taught numerous people to shoot with it mostly young shooters because of its light weight. I have shot tens of thousands of rounds through it with very little maintenance. I just wipe off the burnt powder around the ejection port and keep shooting. If you think they are worthless pieces of plastic just go on some of the auction sites and price them. This rifle was a gift from my grandfather and it will go to my oldest son when I am done with it. I would not be afraid to take it in a survival situation.

[gypsyman]

I would prefer a 10/22. But if I had to carry a .22 pistol, be my Browning buckmark. 10 shots, very accurate. gypsyman

[Dweezil]

Ruger MKII...suppressed, of course. If you must sacrifice power and go to a .22 you should gain the advantage of discretion. Ruger 10/22's simply aren't a very good suppressed option as combustion gasses/unburnt powder get forced back into the receiver and quickly foul the rotary magazine. Also, the relatively heavy bolt on the 10/22 doesn't always cycle with subsonics.

[teamnelson]

dweezil, good info on suppressed 10/22s. Those seem to be the "holy grail" of survivalists.

[jlwilliams]

  I have never noticed a problem with 10-22 cycling subsonics.  Bear in mind, a suppressor (at least a screw on) will raise back pressure a little.  A rifle that doesn't cycle well with subsonics 'out of the box' may do well when you screw the can on.  Mine cycles well with about any ammo can or no, but I bough it used twenty years ago so it's 'well broken in' and I've done some basic trigger work (shims, over travel stop, stuff like that)

  The integrally suppressed 10-22s and Mk 2 or 3 pistols are really amazing.  Many of them are designed to work well with 'high velocity' bulk pack ammo (they put a really short barrel inside the integral silencer tube, that way the bulk pack ammo doesn't have enough barrel to go supersonic)  Not all are built equal, so some may have reliability issues while others may not.  Definitely worth looking into and buying while we can still buy tax stamps (let alone guns at all).  For those who don't mind buying a $200 tax stamp, consider short barreled rifles (SBR)  A folding, suppressed short barrel 10-22 can give you near the concealability of a pistol with the shoulder stock option for steady aimed rifle shooting.

  Like TN said, 'holy grail' survivalist gun.

[Spanky]

I'd take my H&R 22 single shot rifle.



Spanky

[Justin10mm]

I would be scared of anything with a magazine in a survival situation. If it was lost or worn out the gun would be basically turned into a single shot, if usable at all.

Why would you only take one or the other? A small handgun on the belt is almost unnoticeable.

I would want a short barreled revolver SA or DA on my belt at all times.
I would also want a single shot rifle (bolt or break open) with a low powered scope for game getting.

If you had to have JUST one, then I think the best compromise would be some form of long barreled handgun. (revolver or single shot - think 10 inch contender)   

[teamnelson]

Yep, a 10" contender in a shoulder holster is a hunting rig. I like the .223 with a chamber adapter to .22lr. I'm thinking there'll be some 5.56 laying around and with .22 I've shot iron sights to 100yds and knocked over steel rams using Winchester ammo.

[mcwoodduck]

Wait a minute.
You said the ONLY caliber would be 22LR.
and now you are tossing in 223.
If that is the case the better survival situation would be a T/C 223 barrel does not matter the length as you said ther will not be a gov't official to challange you with a carbine stock on it.  Or one of the CZ 527 carbines in 223 with chamer adapters.
Gives you the long and short range, ig and small game and with the 223 you have a better self defence in case someone challanges you for the rabbit you just put a hole in.  Maybe one of the Savage over and under 223/ 12 ga guns would even be better.  Most places you scrounge may have a shotgun of some kind and gives you the ability to take birds in flight like pigeons, dove, and other edible things.

[teamnelson]

mcwoodduck, you're right! assuming only 22, which is better? rifle or pistol? I still say pistol. 

[mcwoodduck]

For you maybe.
For most.  i would say rifle.
Most people can not shoot a handgun.  In Military school the rifle team challanged the pistol team every year in a shoot off an every year the rifle team bought Pizza.  I was on the pistol team and our rifle scores were with in 95% of the rifle teams shooters.  There pistol scores were about 1/2 our scores.  It takes a lot of practice to master the handgun, and more practice to stay current.  I used to fly a lot with my father, it has been 25 Years since I last flew a plane cross country and got it back on the ground.  I am sure today if I had to I could, but I would not be very steady and my landing would bounce!
To score hits on small game, not for sport hunting I mean I am killing it for survival.
I want the odds stacked in my favor.  I am an awesome pistol shot, Just ask me.  But I if I could only take one 22 LR fire arm with me it would be one of the rifles.  Owning a number of rifles.  I think I would still look at a mag fed bolt action with good iron sights.  This is survival and if I can hit a tree rat 9 out of 10 with the rifle and 8 out of 10 with the handgun.  the rifle wins and that one hit may be the one that saves me. in not using as much ammo.  Also the longer barrels of the rifle will be quieter and not hurting your hearing as much.
If I were to make a rifle just for this.
Easy.
CZ 452 American 16"
Install good Iron sights and shoot it for a few months with the sights.
Install a rugged low to mid scope 2.5-7X32 or 3-9X38
Drill holes in the stock to hold a spare mag and make the rifle lighter.  and paint the stock to seal it. also add a screw driver, like the ones my company used to give away to the sling along with any other tools needed to remove the scope if damaged.  Screddriver or allen wrench.
I would put a nylon sling on the gun. so AI can drag or use two hands.  Even a shot rifle can be fired one handed or you can use a rest if one wing is hurt.  I can hit the same shooting left handed from the rifle as I can with the hand gun but my scores drop a point or two.  Again I do not want to be shooting a 70 for survival.

[teamnelson]

That CZ you're describing sounds pretty nice, and I definitely agree that a bolt or single-shot is far preferable to a semi-auto .22 rifle for survival reasons. If I have time to grab more than 1 gun, my 3rd will be a long gun for all the reaons you describe. There's strong points to whatever you particularly choose, and the need to practice and be proficient with that choice should be assumed.

[mcwoodduck]

You would think that.
I have a friend that bought a few guns and keeps them vaccumed sealed in a bug out bag.
AR and ammo
870 and ammo and a Walther P-1 (AL framed P-38) I gave hime when he sold all of his guns to get out of debt and needed something for home protection.
He has run maybe 2 boxes of ammo through the AR, and a few throught the P-1 and I am not sure the ammo he has stored with the gun will work in the mags.  When I had it would work with the 115 grain Silver tips or maybe the 115 Gold Sabers as hollow points.
I think he has 147 grain Hydroshocks, he had when he had his Sig P226, that ammo may turn  the P-1 into a bolt action.  Early designs did no not like long flat pointed bullets.
Same with the AR ammo - have no Idea if he ran the ammo he has through the gun or the mags he has.
A lot of people are like that.  think it will work cause it fits and should work.
He is suprised when I bring a revolver or other small auto to a shoot and do not shoot one of my Sigs (I am in the top 3  at my clubif I shoot the Sig P-22? series pistols i own) He asks why I shot the Det Spl and took 10th rather than taking 1st.  I simply say if I were as good with the revolver as I am with the Sig then I should take 1st with either.  I need to use and prictice with the other guns, some day I may need one.  He also keeps telling me I should seal up either my AR or AK or M1 carbine and stop shooting one of them and have it in a go bag.
I say the same thing if it is in the gun safe next to the go bag, i can use it and stay good with it till I need it to go.
During the OJ trial I was in and out of the LA area and whre the Rodney King roits were in particular.
I kept a sealed Steven 520 pump gun under the back seat of my Jeep vaccume sealed.  i would still pull it out.  Break it out of the seals, screw it together load it and shoot with it on a regular basis.  He would ask why- "so I don't forget how to get it together and loaded when needed".  The day the Jurry came back I had it loaded in the front seat and was headed home as fast as the jeep would go, till I heard Not Guilty.  Pulled over found a quiet place unloaded and stowed the gun.
The Mits (Japanese Hum Vee) I replaced the cherokee with does not have a cool place to store a take down so other things live in it.
Oh well I guess guys like my buddy will be places where I will be able to pick up ammo after he is dead with a jammed round in a gun in his hands.

[teamnelson]

mcwoodduck, along those same lines ... and i know this is gonna hurt someone's feelings ... had a buddy buy a 10/22. had to have it, everyone has one (i've had 3 or 4 I think, can't remember). Anyway, 10/22, brick of some ammo, out to the desert to do some shooting. If it fed, it FTF about 1 in 6 maybe? Obviously an ammo issue. Course you have to actually fire it to know that. Dad bought a Bisley when they first came out; Ruger had tapped the front sight all the way into the bore. Fortunately he noticed it during initial strip and clean or he would've had a gas propelled sight. Even Ruger has a bad day once in a while. But he wouldn't have known it if he hadn't paid attention. I wonder how many folks are banking their future on a weapon they've rarely fired, if at all, probably never stripped down, using ammo they've probably not tested, all based on our recommendations here.

So back to the thread, if you're reading this and you're not expending a brick a year through your rimfire survival option, get out there! Try every type of .22 you can get your hands on, swap 10 rds with another fella at the range just to see how yours feeds, and take notes. Use both scope and irons, and sight it in, and take notes on your dope adjustment. Identify and mitigate any weaknesses in your choice, seriously. You can upgrade almost anything on a 10/22, or any other popular option - not all magazines are alike, for example.

[Dweezil]

A Ruger MKII in a holster leaves your hands free...to carry a bolt action .308.  That ought to handle most situations in the lower 48.  Suppressors for both, of course, since discretion is the better part of valor.   
If a 22 rifle was my only option,it would have to be a bolt action, not semi, and certainly nothing with an easily fouled rotary magazine. BTW: y'all ought to check out Thompsonmachine.com   They've got a really cool, integrally suppressed Savage MKII...and the suppressor "guts" come out for cleaning. would be a great SHTF option for those who prefer rifles.

[teamnelson]

Did Ruger ever make a carbine that used Mark 1/2/3 magazines? That'd be interesting, eventhough I know they've got a lot banked on the rotary mag 10/22. Ares makes a conversion kit, Ares 22 RCU. Its a little bit ugly 

[Almtnman]

If a 22 rifle was my only option,it would have to be a bolt action, not semi, and certainly nothing with an easily fouled rotary magazine.

That's what this topic was about a 22 rifle vs a 22 pistol. A lot of posts went into this topic discussing which choice of either a 22 rifle or a 22 pistol people would prefer including a few posts that I made on my choice. If the topic has now changed to other types of weapons, there might be other opinions other than what has been posted as to what people would prefer to use instead. Or maybe a brand new topic should be started with a broader range of firearms as choices. 

[scootrd]

I would definitely select a 22 rifle.
Now what 22 cal rifle is a hard choice , 10/22 ? CZ 452 American 16 posted earlier would be an interesting choice.? Nylon 66 would be a great choice as well . Or perhaps a Puma PPS or wildcat 22LR with a 50 round Drum. (don't know enough about them at present time). There are so many others as well.  

PPS


wildcat


Or an American 180 with a 176 or 275 round drum



Ruger SR 22,  Colt M4 , and the list goes on and on ...

Once deciding my choice would be a rifle , choosing one rifle over another would be the most difficult choice.

[sachel.45]

id probably go with a marlin .22 mag bolt action with the tube mag and a peep sight. although i really like my 6.5" single six with the mag cylinder but since i don't have the marlin id go with the single six if i had to carry a rimfire not my first choice however

[walks with gun]

   Where are you trying to survive in, Walmart.   Most of the time a .22 handgun does not penetrate enough to be a true survival gun, you might want a deer or wondering cow if your hungry or to put up winter meat. A good rifle for meat and defence is really the only way to go.

[Spanky]

A single shot break open 22 rifle is the only thing that makes sense to me in a survival scenario. There is no magazine to lose... no bolt to lose... nothing to jam or malfunction. Scope's don't make sense either... what if you drop your gun or otherwise damage the optics... you are out of luck. Open sights are the way to go. You need something to protect you and feed you... period. Simple is better in a real life survival situation.



Spanky

[spooked]

A single shot break open 22 rifle is the only thing that makes sense to me in a survival scenario. There is no magazine to lose... no bolt to lose... nothing to jam or malfunction. Scope's don't make sense either... what if you drop your gun or otherwise damage the optics... you are out of luck. Open sights are the way to go. You need something to protect you and feed you... period. Simple is better in a real life survival situation.



Spanky

::)I agree if you do away with the pesky transfer bar!

[SHOOTALL]

what if you drop your contender and the hammer spur snaps of ? or the bolt springs break ? I have seen both happen. A Ruger auto pistol is a nice gun , but never the gun of a 7722 , If you lose the mag you have a single shot like the Contender. If you don't you have a 10 shot gun , nice in a fight . The 1022 is ok and if you get it slinced then have a bolt lock installed so burnt gas won't fly back in the action. or just learn to hold a thumb on the bolt handle . Drill out a pace on any rifle and store extra sights like hunters in far away places have done for years . Hey you want your gun to take care of you then plan to take care of it like your life depends on it . I would worry more about rimfire ammo stroage and havinf FTF than loosing a mag.