headspacing

[thunderhead]

I'm kind of new to the encore and break action rifles. Picked one up last fall for muzzleloading, and know have a second barrel in 7mm rem. While looking at other sites I found this guy mb who uses feeler and wheel gauges to measure headspace. The thing is I have an rcbs precision mic that I bought years ago for a bolt action rifle. It worked well for that. I was wondering if anyone had used one on a tc. Seems to me it should work fine.

[southernutah]

thead, I have a precesion mic for every caliber I shoot. I shoot 3 new bullets and measure the brass to get headspace. Not many want to spend the money on the mics. Makes it easy to set dies .

[Dezynco]

What he is measuring with the feeler gages is the barrel-to-frame gap.  Starting with the thinnest gage (.001) you close the barrel on the gage until it grabs one and won't let go.  Your barrel to frame gap is a little smaller that the gage that grabs.

He also uses a dial indicator to measure the amount that the rim of the cartridge is above or below the breach.  You take the combined measurement of the case rim position (above or below the breach face) with the barrel to frame gap to get the total amount of headspace.

For example, my 30-30 AI barrel measures dead zero on the rim, but had a barrel to frame gap of .006"  That's WAY too much, so I bought the headspace shims and shimmed my firing pin block .005"  That give me a total headspace of .001"(that's .006 - .005) which is about as good as it can get and still be able to close the barrel.

The feeler gages can be purchased at any automotive parts store for a few dollars.  The dial indicator is nothing special either, but the little base is necessary to measure the case position in the chamber.

I am modifying my post to reflect the rules of the forum.  Sorry about that!  I didn't want to use the censored word...

[Grumulkin]

I think the headspace "issue" with Encores is really a whole lot of tempest in a teapot.  IF in shooting factory ammunition you have misfires, you may have a headspace problem but I've never had that problem with my Encores or Contenders.  I think the issue is WAY overblown by MB but I've been quite happy with a couple of trigger jobs he has done for me.  The advantages of oversized hinge pins are in my opinion a little questionable.  I think his "stub barrel" thing is something I wouldn't want to try and his pushing Bergara barrels made me lose a bit of respect for his opinions.

[charles p]

Rimmed cartridges are one solution.

[yooper77]

I have handloaded and fired the following in factory T/C barrel with zero problems.

223 Remington, 243 Winchester, 7mm-08 Remington and 30-06 Springfield which is rimless case head and never a headspace problem.

I also handloaded 44 Magnum and 454 Casull, but these are rimmed cases.

Now I have heard of people talking about problems with the belt on rifle magnum cartridges.

I never use any aftermarket gadgets, since they are not needed and are all hype.

yooper77

[wallypedal]

Let's see, I think the question was about RCBS precision micrometers and headspacing. And I don't know anything about the RCBS part!!  I studied everything written about Encore headspace, and did all the measuring, too. Here's what I settled on:

For a particular barrel/frame/locking bolt combo, there is a certain feel to how the locking bolts disengage when you open the action on an empty chamber. If you go slow, you can feel just a little "free travel" in the trigger guard when you pull it back. I resize with a full length resizer not screwed in all the way in the press. Then I gently close the action on the case until it either closes or it won't quite close. Then I screw the die in just a little more. Eventually, I hit a spot where the action seems to close OK, but that free travel is more than the empty chamber amount. Then I resize a couple more cases with the die turned in maybe 1/16 to 1/8 turn more yet. I keep this up until the cases fired in this rifle have the same amount of free travel as the empty chamber, and I check by rotating the cases, too, just to make sure they aren't longer on one side.

This gives me a die setting that resizes the amount needed for free chambering and minimal case head to firing pin bushing gap. Works for me. Now I need to shell out for Redding s-type full body bushing dies so I quit squeezing necks up and down un-necessarily, and I'll be all set.

[wreckhog]

I think the headspace "issue" with Encores is really a whole lot of tempest in a teapot.  IF in shooting factory ammunition you have misfires, you may have a headspace problem but I've never had that problem with my Encores or Contenders.  I think the issue is WAY overblown by MB but I've been quite happy with a couple of trigger jobs he has done for me.  The advantages of oversized hinge pins are in my opinion a little questionable.  I think his "stub barrel" thing is something I wouldn't want to try and his pushing Bergara barrels made me lose a bit of respect for his opinions.

TC came out with 35 Whelens for primitive weapon season last year. Tons of misfire issues.

[wallypedal]

Went and read what I could find on the Whelen t/c barrel problems. Never found anything that spelled it out. The only hint I could find was that T/C had a replacement extractor that 'solved the problem'. If the extractor is involved, that would mean to me that it is holding the case from entering the chamber all the way, so that when the firing pin strikes the primer, there is not enough resistance to make a decent impact. So either the extractor is too thick or the chamber is too deep or both. If I was going to modify what I wrote earlier about headspace and setting my dies, it would be to do all the adjusting with the extractor removed, and to verify that cases go into the chamber just as far with the extractor installed OR removed. My 2 cents...

[wreckhog]

Several theories out there on the Whelen. The round appears to be more sensitive to headspace issues in single shots. The "see post below" theory is that all rounds flex at primer strike and the Whelen flexes more due to case dimensions. So there are several quick and dirty fixes designed to give the primer a harder whack than usual to compensate.

[Elwood]

"If one of your words is censored when making a post, remove it.  Even if you don't know why.  This forum seems to like to come up with cute ways to get around the censoring.  Don't.  You don't need to have an explanation for why a word or name is not allowed.  It just isn't.  If you leave it in, your post will be removed.  If you continue to push the envelope you risk being banned.
The owner of this sight and the Administrator are kind enough to let us hang out here and talk.  They set the rules.  Those of us who like it here follow them."

This is quoted from the TC Pistol forum rules.
This thread is talking about the kook who's name is banned.
Saying MB is a cute way of getting around the censoring. Graybeard lets us use his forum if we follow HIS rules.

[thunderhead]

Eiwood thank you for pointing out if I made a mistake with my posting. It seems that you went to an awful lot of trouble to do so. I apologize to Mr.
Graybeard if I inadvertently crossed some boundry or stretched some rule without knowing. I just wanted to ask a question.


Thanks to everyone who responded. I had a chance put a few rounds through to sight in. I shot both factory and handloads, and they both shot well. The chamber of the TC is larger than my old A-bolt. I guess as always its just going to be a matter of trial and error. In the end I hope I can say that the gun shoots better than I do. I don't know if thats possible with a break action, but I intend to find out.

[Dezynco]

A lot of the "fine tuning" that can be done to the TC's is a matter of opinion anyway.  If a barrel/cartridge shoots well, I see no need to fool with it.  However, I have a barrel that doesn't shoot well, so I figured "what the heck" and spent a few dollars for some tune up parts.  I can't say that the accuracy was vastly improved, just a bit maybe.

The oversized hinge pin, headspacing shims, and heavy locking springs make my G2 carbine lock up like a bank vault!  One thing that always bothered me was the way the barrel clunked back and forth with the factory hinge pin.  With the oversized pin, the clunking back and forth are gone.  Can't say that it helps with accuracy, but it makes ME feel better!