How many here use a Mill Dot Recticle in your scope to judge range?

[DalesCarpentry]

How many here use a Mill Dot Recticle in your scope to judge range? I really don't have the extra cash to buy a range finder so I bought a scope last week with Mill Dots to judge range. I will some day when I can afford it buy a Bushnell arch 1200 but until then I am going to have to make due with this system. The math really is not all that hard. If you know the height of your target in inches you would multiply that times 27.77. Then devide that by the number of Mills read. I am going to buy one of those Milldot Masters next week to help me with this so I don't have to carry a caculator in the field. For those that don't know what that is it is a slide rule type thing. It greatly speeds up the process because them Groundhogs are not going to hang around all day waiting for you to come up with a shooting solution. Of those that respond here about using a Mill Dot system for judging range I would also like to know if you use the Milldot Master. I made up a drop chart today for my 22-250 that I can tape to the side of my stock. I also went to the range today and everything checks out to the 300 yard mark. My drop chart goes out to 600 yards so I would bet it won't be exact out that far but I bet it gets me a lot closer than just trying to guess hold over. When I say I made up a drop chart what I did was run my info through a exterior ballistics program. You tell it what your zero is, caliber, Balistic coeficent, well hell it is just easier to give you this link and it is a good one to save to your favorites.
http://biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx
This program gives you how many clicks up you need to go for the range you are shooting at. The thing is that Groundhog is going to die of old age if you have to count every click. I figure mine in MOA. For example I am shooting Winchester USA ammo that is 45 grain bullet at a MV of 4,000 FPS. I run it through that program and with a 200 yard zero at 575 yards with my scope that has 1/4" addjustments it says I have to come up 47 clicks. My scope is devided by MOA 4 clicks = 1 MOA at 100 yards. Well When I made up my drop chart I did not write down 47 clicks up because that would take all day counting clicks. I devided 47 by 4 and it comes out to 11.75 witch =11.3 clicks. So all I have to do is dial in 11 minutes and 3 clicks. I hope you guys follow this for those that are new to this like I am. I know it can be hard to understand. I am just trying to put it as simple as I can. So I have rambled enough and this is my system so far and I am only a few into this. So this is a learning thing for me also. If any of you guys that have more experince than me see any mistakes in anything I have written please correct me because I do not want to learn it the wrong way. Take Care Dale

[torpedoman]

you can't see a ground hog past 300 yds so how you gonna know it is out there? We have way too many toys try stalking the critter and put some sport back in the game.

[Dances with Geoducks]

We have one of these in each one of our drag bags

http://www.mildot.com/index.htm

Once you have  bullet drop, there is no guess work.

You dont even have to use bullets to practice

http://www.shooterready.com/lrsdemo.html

[DalesCarpentry]

you can't see a ground hog past 300 yds so how you gonna know it is out there? We have way too many toys try stalking the critter and put some sport back in the game.

I have shot a couple groundhogs at about 500 yards with my 243 Remington SPS Varmint. What do you mean you can't see them? I use a pair of 16 power binoculars and I can't even count how many I have killed around 300 yards. As far as sporting goes anyone can hit one at 100 yards. It is much more fun at longer distance. Also Dances with Geoducks I did bring this up in my post and was wondering if any of you guys also used the Mildot Master. Take care Dale

[Brithunter]

Well I have recently acquired my first Mil Dot reticled scope. I cannot tell you the spacings nor the size of the mildots but the reticle is less cluttered than I thought they were, at least this one is, it's a fixed magnification scope with 7.5x magnification.

I plonked it on a .22LR bolt action BSA Supersport Five to try out and sighted it in. The mounts were on the scope and are too high but they will do for a quick test I suppose. Around 8:40PM last night I spotted a big wabbit with two half grown ones on the field edge and they were a long way out. I have a post in the ground at 95 paces and they were beyond that quite a ways. Now I sighted in at 50 yards so I tried using the 3rd dot down and overshot and all three ducked into cover  . One of the half growns popped out again a short time later with my left hand gripping a post and the rifles forestock rested across my forearm I placed the 2nd dot down on said Wabbits noggin and squeezed. There was a whack and the wabbit did the head flip thing.

Waited a while but the others were not going to play so I paced out the distance. 122 paces and the RWS Sub sonic entered just behind the eye. Now just one shot may be a fluke    but we will see over the coming days/weeks as they often appear around that spot and even have worn a run coming across the dyke in that spot.

Now I will try looking up the scope, it's a Falcon Menace CSS 7.5x50 with side focus, and see what the dots are size wise and spacing is. Now the problem as I see it unless one runs out and mearures the size of said wabbit  one cannot judge the range accurately even with a Mildot reticle and Wabbits especially at this time of year vary an awful lot in size. Oh and before someone asks we don't have seasons on Wabbits you can shoot them all year round  .

[DalesCarpentry]

Your Mill Dot recticle should have a spacing of one Mill between dots. from center of dot to center of dot. One Mill Dot measures 3.6" at 100 yards and 36" at 1,000 yards. I hope this helps you. Here are a couple pictures of the new scope. Dale

[Reverend Recoil]

There is another way to measure range at a much lower cost.  First, measure your walking pace.  Second, take long walks.  As you walk along, estimate the distance to a far off object and then count your paces as you walk to it.  With some practice your range judgement will be good enough for any sport shooting.  In highschool there was a friend of mine that was in the marching band.  He could estimate the distance to anything out to 800 yards with a variance of only 10 yards.  Sometimes simple low-tech methods are the best.

[mrbigtexan]

i am just beginning as well. i will post back with any info that i might be able to share.

[sscoyote]

Dale, several years ago i purchased a 6-18x Nikon Buckmasters mil-dot to put on a 17 Fireball XP-100 handgun. This optic is calibrated for the mil at 12x (all Nikon's are). At 18x it's 12/18x3.6=2.4 inch per hundred yds.--measured as well as calcd.! This is a prairie dog rig, and i have used it with the lowly (BC-wise) 25 gr. Hornady HP at that power for some 1st-shot connections to ~500 yds. in <10 mph winds using the turret (1/8th IPHY) for elevation and reticle for calculated windage, and it works--quite well. This was calcd. from a ballistics program only and never tested (testing was done on prairie dogs).

I also have used the reticle for calculating distance to prairie dogs and it was good most of the time as long as i guessed tgt. size correctly, BUT EVEN WHEN I WAS OFF IT WAS STILL BETTER THAN GUESSING!

As i mentioned before i prefer to use my reticles at the optic's highest power for rangefinding as well as downrange zeroing since u can usually resolve your tgt. better. I shoot in the hot summer prairie and i have never been wanting for less power due to excessive mirage. IMO, the mirage is still there the only difference between less power and high power is that u can see the mirage and tgt. relatively better. It has never been an issue for me.

The only problem u may have with attempting to reticle-range a chuck is the grass/clover interfering with an accurate bracketing reading due to not being able to resolve the edges of your target. You may have better luck trying to guess his width instead of height.

The factor of 27.78 u speak of is a factor that i refer to as the "subtension unit", and of course is the relationship of range to subtension (i.e. the MD 3.6" at 100 yds., or 100/3.6). For my optic above the factor is 41.67 (100/2.4), then applied the same as the mil-dot. With the MD it is important to learn how to apply the dot when bracketing the tgt. If there was ever a picture that says a thousand words it is this one that explains interpolation between stadia points--Can't link it now--something wrong with photobucket--maybe soon. Sorry. Oh, BTW for prairie dogs i take a calculator with me, but do use my laser most of the time.

Here it is--

[diggler1833]

Hey that Shooter Ready demo game is fun.  I managed to squeeze out a 95 on both mils and MOA on the first time.  Granted, that is not factoring in weather, and doing the whole 40" / by #MOA, dividing by 1.047, then moving the decimal point and getting the range.  Or doing the 40" / #mils / 3.6 and then moving the decimal point and getting the range.  It is not as accurate as the actual formula, but it will get you pretty close.  I was able to keep it within 2MOA or a .5Mil even on the misses.

[mcwoodduck]

Your Mill Dot recticle should have a spacing of one Mill between dots. from center of dot to center of dot. One Mill Dot measures 3.6" at 100 yards and 36" at 1,000 yards. I hope this helps you. Here are a couple pictures of the new scope. Dale

Remember the Mill Dot was made for a Military sniper.  So you look at a person who is about 6' and see how much of him is covered by the dot.
As you posted if 2 dots cover the 6' object then it is at 1,000 yards  1 Dot = 36"  as you get closer you questamate range by how big the 5.5' to 6' object is in the scope compared to the dots and do the math.  6' = 4 dots = 500 yards, 6' = 8 dots = 250 yards.
Again this was designed for a military sniper where a 12"x 12" hit is good and a close guestamate is going to be ok.  Either you have killed the leader and he now is no longer leading, or you have wounded the leader, and he needs 4 to 6 guys to remove him from the field and you halt the progress of the enemy for a moment or two in time to bring other heavy weapons on the targets.
As for shooting at Ground hogs.  Get a good laser range finder, or if it is a field you hunt regularly drive steaks every 50 yards.  Different color for each yardage with a yellow line for the 50 yard.  The start using the mills to figure out what dot to use to hit a hog at 300, 350, and 400 yards when sighted in at 200.  An then play with windage to see what effects wind has on your target.  If you toss a round at a g hog and you are 8" off to the left ot right you can use the dots and figure out the hold over and windage filling in the rest of the grid.  So a miss by 3" at 200 yards would be a 1/2 mill adjustment.  
Sorry i am rusty with this I was shown this over 20 years ago and have not used one since.

[diggler1833]

That's why I prefer belt-fed weapons as you just hold the trigger and walk it on.

98 this time on both games, the fun is gone it looks like the yardages stay the same.  That stupid guesstimation formula works pretty good actually, managed to keep margin of error at a 25yd average for the mil formula and 17.6yd avg for the MOA formula (yes I "nerded" it up that much).

Dale, just use the mildots for hold-over references.  If you miss by almost a dot, just move the reticle over and fire for effect.

[sscoyote]

Have the Center Point 4-16x on an AR for testing and while coyote hunting about a week ago came across some doe deer feeding in a river bottom. Lasered at 385, and reticle-ranged using the mil reticle at 16x (2.25 inch per 100 yds. between dots). Looked to occupy not quite 1.9 mils. back to brisket. Figured 1.85. Figuring 15" back to brisket avg. adult doe deer-- 15 x 100 / 2.25 / 1.85 = 360, 25 yds. off for 6.5% error. Not too bad.

Couple days ago a buddy was shooting at about a 2" rock at 1040 with his big 7mm and my 8.5-25x Mk4 TMR. I was spotting with the el cheapo Center Point and he hit some distance above the tgt. Gapped the error right at 1.0 mil, so-- X x 100 / 2.25 / 1.0 = 1040, X = 23". Told him to crank 2 minutes down and he almost hit it. That was fun to spot, measure and calculate for using the mil reticle.