Taming recoil in a 45-70 ?

[moconfed]

Bought my son a 45-70 for a graduation present last saturday, and scoped it with a Bushnell Banner sat. eve.
Took him to the range sun. morn, and promptly bruised his shoulder with it after 12 rounds of the Hornady 'leverrevolution' ammo (the ballistic tip piqued my curiosity for loads for my highwall, but that's another story).
Even with the factory recoil pad, it kicks like a mule. I thought of a limbsaver slip-on on top of the factory job, but does anyone have an alternative?
I used to have a handi in 45-70, but it was an older model sans recoil pad and it kicked, but nothing extraordinary- I'd imagine it has a lot to do with the ammo- I used to shoot 405's and 300's in mine, and it wasn't bad.
 So before my son takes to the woods to kill Bambi, I thought I might investigate this issue, as a flinch is not a good thing!

[quickdtoo]

You can add weight to the stock, lead shot in a sock for the synthetic, fill the stock bolt hole on the wood stock with shot or a lead filled pipe, a 7/8"x5" 16oz mercury recoil reducer fits nicely in a wood stock too, see the FAQs. Limsaver makes a prefit pad for the synthetic stock.

Tim

[spikehorn]

The Hornady LE's are pretty hot loads, try the Remington and Winchester factory loads to me both of those feel about like a 20ga with field loads.

[moconfed]

I thought about one of the mercury filled tubes- a friend used one on a HR 12 gauge he bought for his daughter- I'll check on that.
the 45-70 is a family favorite, as I have a Browning highwall BPCR model, and the wife has a trapdoor Springfield chambered in that caliber, and he wanted the handi chambered the same, but talk about a difference in the way the different rifles handle it!

[dpe.ahoy]

The Limbsaver will take the OUCH out of the recoil, I have several of the slip-ons from Wally World (Wal-Mart) for $20.00 each.  DP

[Graycg]

Start reloading and load up some lead bullet loads in the 12-1400 FPS range and work up from there as experience and tolerance allows.  You can kill bambi dead with a 400 grain cast bullet at 1200 FPS if need be.

regards,
 graycg

[Mac11700]

A thumb hole stock either synthetic or wood will go a long way with taming the recoil unless he is shooting the rifle from a rest with free recoil and not holding the rifle.The new synthetics Handi-grip stocks all have very good recoil pads on them,same as what comes on the Remington thumb hole stocks for the 870 pumps and will help a great deal.

Mac

[Swampman]

The Remington 405 grain factory load doesn't kick much at all, and the brass is reloadable.

[oldsoldja]

His shoulder will get stronger, i just made my boys shoot more often. And 'tiger balm works good on the pain.

[petemi]

Until a month ago when I started reloading, all I shot in my Handi Synthetic .45-70 was 325 gr. Hornady LEs.  I cramed 36 ounces of #4 shot in a cut off panty hose leg and dropped it in the stock.  End of recoil problem.  I then loaded and shot 405 gr. at about 1800 fps, and no problem.

I tend to think your son is shooting off a bench and the butt stock is not square to his shoulder, and perhaps he isn't snugging it in tight enough.  Bench shooting generally doesn't allow your body to roll back with the recoil, and often presents the butt to the shoulder at a less than optimal angle.  "Scope Eye" is often another consequence of poor position.  A .45-70, properly held by an adult, shouldn't be bruising shoulders.  Another thought, is the bruising in the pocket of the shoulder or out on the arm side of the shoulder?  Perhaps he's not tucking it in.

Pete

[LaOtto222]

All good sugestions. I recomend either light recoiling (trap door) loads (which is plenty to lay a deer or even more low) or getting a lead sled to do all your sighting in and practicing with. Once he is familar with the rifle and loads, he will not feel a thing once he is in the field taking a shot at a deer. I can shoot my Ithica 12 model 37, 3 times at a tin can in the yard and have a brused shoulder; but I can shoot it all day long at quail or rabbits and not feel a thing. It is amazing how you tense up for target shooting and you can roll with the punch when shooting at game.

[Spanky]

1200-1400 fps with a good hardcast bullet will kill anything in North America and won't beat the hell out of you. If you don't reload... the factory Remington 405gr. ammo has a light recoil and is very accurate out of my Handi.



Spanky

[NFG]

I have a laminated thumbhole stock but it is too slick to hold on to with heavy recoiling loads...the same goes for the forend so I swapped it onto a less recoiling caliber and roughed up the grip areas...I've bought several afermarket thumbhole stocks and forends from Gunstocks, inc...the varminter size.  The stock has plenty of wood to fit my hand and a larger butt end for a larger U-Fit recoil pad, the forend is HUGE but offers a way to add lead up forward.

I also put some lead in the forend BUT read the FAQ's...I explained the problem there.

There are "gun skins" to stick on that provide a gripping area, gloves help a bunch and the squeeze grip strengtheners will do wonders.  Past SUPER MAG PLUS recoil shields are GREAT.  Limbsaver recoil pads.  Mercury recoil reduces work also but lead is cheaper or buy one of the stock slugs that come in the 12Ga USH shotguns.

What Petemi said...and stand up...shooting off a bench all scrunched up is guaranteed to make you hurt.  Learning to stand and roll with the recoil is the best way...a good shooting stick helps with the steadying, or a tree...anything that will keep the rifle perpendicular and square to the shoulder.

You DON'T want to let a heavy recoiling rifle get a head start, but getting someone to pull the gun into the shoulder tight, get a FIRM grip on the stock grip and also the frerarm is a tough sell...and it takes practice to do it without getting a flinch.  Start with only a couple of shots at first with light loads and work up.

How much recoil can be tolerated is also a function of size and build of the person.

A lead sled set up so you sit up straight or just a bag of shot between the butt and shoulder.

You really need to address these problems BEFORE shooting the first time...saves on liniment.

REm 405 is excellent for woods work and deer/blackbear, within 100-125 yds

Luck

[Swampman]

If you're going to add weight to the Handi, I'd just buy something else.  With the weight it's no longer Handi.

[Dances with Geoducks]

I load nasty hot rounds for my Handi, We plink with 475s and 565s Ive never had any type of stout recoil.
I was disappointed. 405s WW cast are the standard rounds, Ive never shot a store bought round. No need

Black powder rounds are flat boring to shoot. (no recoil)

[wreckhog]

Leverevolutions kick more than Remington 405s. Buy the 405s. Wood butt with the factory steel 14oz weight (from Numrich). Take off the buttplate/pad and put on a small Limbsaver. Wear gloves and double ear protection. Shoot standing up. It will kick a lot less. Work your way back to full strength loads and a factory config. It will take a couple range visits in a short span. Don't shoot for 2 months and you can expect to be back where you started.

[v8r]

not to ruffle any feathers or anything, but my .45 colt bruises my shoulder if i shoot more than 20 rounds through it, so my point is how come people say a 45-70 wouldn't bruise someone's shoulder? I am 6' 3'' and 220 pounds, so I wouldn't say it has anything to do with my size.I shoot a 8mm mauser with a steel buttplate and military loads all the time, and it bruises my shoulder.........everyone is different.

[petemi]

not to ruffle any feathers or anything, but my .45 colt bruises my shoulder if i shoot more than 20 rounds through it, so my point is how come people say a 45-70 wouldn't bruise someone's shoulder? I am 6' 3'' and 220 pounds, so I wouldn't say it has anything to do with my size.I shoot a 8mm mauser with a steel buttplate and military loads all the time, and it bruises my shoulder.........everyone is different.

I don't think everyone is different in this respect.  The laws of physics are the same for everyone.  If you're scrunched down over a shooting bench, and not holding properly, my .22 mag. will probably wound you.  You don't lean into a buttstock, you roll back with it.  I'm only 150 lbs and the only times I've been hurt is when I messed up my hold or stance....and I have

Pete

[spikehorn]

I'm 6' 4" and 310 lbs and not recoil shy in the least, but I'm only good for about 5 of the hornady LE's no matter what my shooting stance.

[v8r]

I'm not recoil shy myself,I'll shoot anything atleast once. I'm not going to fool myself into thinking that a big bore rifle isn't going to have any rearward thrust whatever my shooting stance . All I can say is my hat is off to you guys that shoot the hot stuff all the time, but for me I don't call it fun. Happy shooting everyone.

[NFG]

Everyone IS different...I'm a fireplug, 5' 10", 260...I cranked off 10 rounds yesterday working out loads in my 45-120 BC with 710 gr slugs from about 1650 to 1825 fs...it weighs 11.36 lbs with scope...all standing.  I have a Limbsaver recoil pad and the OEM straight grip stock and aftermarket forearm.  The recoil on the last load calculates to ~80 ftlbs but I'm still here...no pain.

Today I chronoed 20 - 45-100, 430gr loads from 1700 fs to about 2230 fs, the last calculates to about 45 ftlbs...all standing up.  I think a lot of the recoil "mystic" is all in the mind.

But recoil is a real issue in the military...studies have shown that the average soldier can't tolerate much more than a 180 gr bullet at 30-06 velocities.

I must be some kind of oddball as I feel/felt no discomfort from all that shooting...

I get whacked harder with my lighter 458 WM, 416 Taylor and 375 H&H rifles on and off the bench and I don't think too much about those rifle's recoil either.

The only effect I get is vibrating after absorbing 20-50 rounds during a hard load workup session.  My whole body litterally vibrates like a geetar strang beginning sometime during and lasting for a couple hours after the last shot.  I have to really concentrate to keep from pulling a shot toward the end.

Same thing with my 12GaFH or heavy 3.5" 12 ga magnum loads in a 9 lb shotgun.  Guess my 510 Makatak will REALLY give me a workout.

Maybe I'm lucky...or maybe no brains, no headaches.  Compared to those gentlemen who regularly shoot  the really BIG cannons, a 45-70 or 458 WM is just your ordinary light duty rifle for small game. Dang   

For those having a hard time, consider the difference between a 9lb rifle and a 11 lb rifle...the extra 2 lbs reduces a ~60 ftlb recoil to ~45 ft lbs...reducing bullet weight and/or velocity will also reduce the recoil...ALL of the changes will reduce the effectiveness also unfortunately...but still...a 405 gr, almost half inch bullet at 1100-1500fs will take care of most ANY problem. LOL

Luck