Author Topic: Got a plan... (Read 2482 times)

Mikey · « **on:** March 14, 2008, 02:34:53 AM »

Yesterday I picked up a older M70 (I think). This was a long range match rifle I bought from an estate sale. It has a 26" stainless bull barrel by Hart, Redfield International Match sights front and rear, Can-jar (?) adjustable target trigger and one of those long range, ultra heavy match shooting stocks to it. For as long as I have had this on layaway I have wondered what to do with it. Got a plan though............

I believe it was made in 1946 or 47, just after post war production began. This thing has stripper clip guides cut into the bridge and it uses a magazine follower designed to hold the bolt open on the last round. The estate owner says he still has a box of parts, which sounds as though it might include the proper mag spring and follower, as well as the original factory sights and scope mounts - seems the rear of the bridge is machined lower than the front of the bridge so having a set of sight bases and mounts helps. It is not marked as a Model 70 - maybe that was on the barrel. The bolt is slight different than the 1970 production M70 I have, looks like a Mauser bolt...

Here's what I'm going to do - either e-bay or gun show the match sights, replace the stock with a factory stock (used if I can find one at a show). I want to return this to a field/sport configuration. I called Hart Barrels and found they will recontour the bull barrel that is on the rifle now, for only $50 - that's worth the hour and a half trip to Syracuse to drop it off and go back for it. I figure that by peddling the redfield sights I can find a proper stock for it, pay for the barrel recountour and still have a couple of bucks left for lunch.

So, I think I got a plan here. I still come away with a M70, but with a Hart medium sporter weight barrel, adjustable Kan-jar (?) trigger, and hopefully a proper stock. Mikey.

StrawHat · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2008, 02:48:02 AM »

Good luck with your plan.

When do we get to see it?

Mikey · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2008, 01:47:58 PM »

Strawhat - just as soon as I can figure out how to post pictures I get some up. Mikey.

Mikey · « **Reply #3 on:** May 02, 2008, 01:25:11 AM »

Pre-war M70??? Went back to the estate person - he called and said there were some parts he just found that I should have and he also gave me some paperwork for the rifle.

Seems that when Hart barreled the rifle they identified it as a pre-war M70, which confuses me a bit. One poster on the Winchester Rifles forum here at Graybeards said the rifle was produced within the first year or so after the end of WWII when Winchester started commercial sales again.

But ya know, those stripper clip guides throw me. I wonder if those were cut afterward for military service matches. And does anyone know when Winchester stopped making magazine followers for the M70s that held the bolt open on the last shot?

?? Mikey.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 02, 2008, 05:13:08 AM »

It sounds like a Pre-war Target model, that was customized - pretty common, years ago.

IIRC, the Pre-war Target Models were factory cut for the clip slots.
I don't believe the standard M-70's were, so your "Sporter" would still be identifiable as a Target Model.

IMHO, Your plan sounds like it would become a very nice custom sporter, indeed.

BTW - AFAIK, if it's Pre-war, it should have what's referred to as a "cloverleaf" top rear tang - the tang is tapered inward/narrowed, ahead of the tang screw, then continues rearward to wrap the tang screw more narrowly/straighter.

I have no knowledge, re: the follower - but I know it was no biggie to swap a military follower in there for match shooting.
The last shot hold-open would have been needed during noisy centerfire matches, with many competitors on the line simultainously.

Mikey · « **Reply #5 on:** May 03, 2008, 01:42:20 AM »

Rangr44 - one of the slips of paper and earlier receipts on this rifle specify that it is a pre-war M70 Target rifle. I checked the tang and it is a 'cloverleap' type as you describe.

The clip slots are cool and I can find a new follower. I think this is gonna be a nice rifle. Thanks for your help. Mikey.

SharonAnne · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2008, 10:54:47 PM »

Mikey, I would have the rifle appraised as-is. being pre-war it may have collector value.

Mikey · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2008, 01:54:38 AM »

SharonAnne: Hmmmmmm, had not thought of that. Thank you for the insight. Mikey.

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2008, 12:54:32 AM »

I had a plan, didn't I?? Well, the plan is still there and I've gotten a new computer as well as the photo programs to print and post pictures. so that part is still good but I'm having a bit of difficulty finding an inexpensive stock replacement for this rifle. I've gone through our sponsors list and tried a few others but so far it's looking pretty costly to get a stock to fit that rifle. Ah well, just gotta keep lookin'. Mikey.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2009, 03:33:26 PM »

Mikey-

Happened to find this post while browsing. I might be wrong, but I owned a Winchester model #54 back when I was a kid, and i believed it had the stripper clip cut out. I don't think that feature was carried forward on the model 70. Both actions had much in common though.

Larry

Mikey · « **Reply #10 on:** December 11, 2009, 01:08:28 AM »

Hey Larry - thanks for the insight. I will check again but I'm almost certain this is a M70. Well, at least that's how any number of folk have identified it. I will have to look more closely. Thanks again.

Catfish · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2009, 10:29:58 AM »

I would not rush ahead with your plan. If the gun still shoots like it did in it`s prime, and with the sights with it you might be able to trade it for what you want and stick several dollars in your pocket instead of putting out more cash. I just bought a set of Redfiels sight for a mod. 37 Rem. and gave $ 150 for them AND was told by several people that I got a real deal.

Mikey · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2010, 02:35:58 AM »

The plan is starting to come together. Last week I brought the rifle back to HART Barrels to have them cut it back to 24", re-contour it to a (their) #4 (medium weight sporter) configuration and bead blast it.

I ordered a sporter style stock from Bob's (had to e-mail the order and still don't know if it went through as you can't leave messages on their answering machine and I can't connect with his e-mail address) and specified it is for a pre-war, long action with the cloverleaf tang.

HART Barrels is a kewl place. The owner knew exactly what I had when he looked at it but had it confirmed from across the shop by his barrel maker who said - Yep, that's a pre-war....... and by the time I get it back from HART I hope the stock will have arrived so I can begin puting the pieces together. Ah, wish me unfettered success............and by that time I should be able to figure out the whole posting picture thing so you can see what it looks like......wish me luck with that, too................

drdougrx · « **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2010, 06:20:03 AM »

Everyone loves a new project!! Love to see some pics Mikey!!!

skyhigh_seller · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2010, 04:36:42 AM »

You had them borescope it first before recontouring, right?

Mikey · « **Reply #15 on:** March 26, 2010, 02:29:15 AM »

Hey Doug - yep, just as soon as I learn how to post pictures I will have a bunch of them. But, listen to this (can ya hear me now???) I got a call from HART yesterday to tell me the barrel is done - already. Less than 3 weeks. Nutz man, it would have taken me three weeks just to figure out how to get it out of the action. Ok, so next week early I will drive back on out to HARTs and pick up the barrelled action and wait for the stock OR, I can sit with the lady at HARTs who handles all the business for the guys who gunsmith the barrels and actions and order up a stock from one of her catalogs.

Skyhigh: no I didn't, but only because I didn't think of it. The rifle was rebarrelled by HART in 1993 and fired about 2-300 times until its owner became ill in 95 - he since passed away and I purchased the rifle from a friend who handled his estate sale. The rifle had been 'gunsafed' since 95. I had a choice between a Garand and this Winchester, or I could have had both, but I chose the Winny. A retired NYS Trooper took the Garand and is happier than a lark with it.

When I took the rifle back to HART, the owner and I reviewed the previous owner's targets and log book that came with the rifle - he put a light down the barrel and said that it certainly had been fired but not much. He also said that if I was going to turn this back into a sporter (never was, it started life as a target model) I should expect groups in the 1/2 range with factory ammo. I believe I mentioned this was fine with me......

Now I'm gettin' excited. I was going to use my Husky 8 for huntin' season this year as I never expected the 06 to be ready for the Fall, and possibly it won't, but the 8 is ready so next year it will be back to the 06..... Ya know guys, a man can have just so much fun.....(before his wife catches on - lololol).....

drdougrx · « **Reply #16 on:** March 26, 2010, 04:47:52 AM »

Yeahh Mikey!!!! Go, go, go.gir...er...guy...

Took Shaw all of 26 weeks to me my barreled action back...but...to be fair...they told me it would take that long.

skyhigh_seller · « **Reply #17 on:** March 26, 2010, 11:46:42 AM »

OK as long as they looked down it.
Their barrels will last a long time.
They always treat walk-ins real good and I am not surprised they got it done so fast for you.
They are good people.

Mikey · « **Reply #18 on:** May 29, 2010, 12:02:14 PM »

I really enjoyed talking with the folks at HART, they are indeed good people.

I finally found a stock for the darn thing - I had a dickens of a time with Bob's Gun Parts in Royal, Arkansas; seems they only accept fax as their answering machine doesn't take messages. I had to print out a copy of their order form and send it in, and never heard back from them until I received a Boyd's stock in the mail, from Bob's....... At least it seems to be the right stock: screw holes are where they should be and the action almost fits but this is a unfinished stock and will need some work to bring it to my preferred style of pistol grip and cheek rest, but that's the fun of it......

Let's see, the barrel is stainless, action black. I s'pose I could minimize the black with a grey-ed stock or finish it like a weather-beaten plank. Hmmmmmm.

drdougrx · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2010, 02:46:35 PM »

long as it shoots!

Frank46 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 29, 2010, 06:30:14 PM »

Mikey, have had a couple of pre '64 and one post '64 winchester match rifles. All of them as manufactured had the stripper clip slots on them. And they all shot extremely well. Enjoy. Frank

Mikey · « **Reply #21 on:** May 30, 2010, 02:42:33 AM »

Frank - that is really weird about the stripper clip slots still being retained so long after stripper clips went out of vogue.

Doug - I think this baby's gonna shoot.....

Frank46 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 01, 2010, 06:03:57 PM »

Mikey, not really as you have to remember that the model 70 has long been used as a basis for match or hi power shooting.
When shooting a bolt gun you have the two stripper clips with 5 rounds each. Still have a couple stainless steel stripper clips floating around here somewhere. Don't forget you have to post some pics when your rifle comes home. Frank

Mikey · « **Reply #23 on:** June 03, 2010, 03:24:05 AM »

Frank: I've used stripper clips before but didn't think Winchester would still have them on rifles made long after stripper clips went out of vogue for the US military. How so ever..... it will get a scope and that will negate the stripper clip guides for use.

I'm still having problems with the stock though. I determined last night that the stock from Bob's Gun Parts in Royal, Arkansas is nothing more than a stock for a post war, post 63 M70; it is not the one I ordered so it is going back and I'm seeking a refund - ya know, I ordered one from Bob's and they just went to Boyd's and charged me the 'Bobs' price.

Anywho, the gunsmith and I talked it over last night - he still has the original heavy target stock the rifle came with that was cut and shaped for the former owner - at least this one fits the action, so the gunsmith is going to work that stock down into a lightweight sporter configuration and that should do it. I will send pictures.