Question for JJ about the 450/400 3"

[GrassLakeRon]

Hi,

     What are your thoughts about 450/400 3" for dangerous game, say bears to buffalo?  What are your personal experiences with them?  I have a chance to pick one up and are mulling over the idea.  Thanks for your insight.

Ron

[JJHACK]

I'm not so much a gun expert as a hunter. Many of the cartridges like the 45/70 and others have a strong following from people that really have a passion about them. If It's legal I will take you with what ever you like. I have no dog in the fight where your personal choices are concerned.

I know what I have seen work great and what I have seen appear marginal. It's what I base my feelings on. I'm not reading charts or graphs and making my opinions up based on formulas and other theory. For those who choose to use that information Great, for those who choose to blow it off because they feel otherwise, good for them. I simply don't care what people use, it's their hide in the ringer and the PH will settle up the mess one way or the other. Or maybe the emotional choice they make prior to the hunt will cost them the lost trophy they have dreamed about. Who knows.

DG cartridges for a serious meaningful minimum for backup are 500 grains at 2100fps, better then this is great up to the point of recoil overload.

For hunting the 375HH with a 300 grain bullet at 2550 is also established. I've found that the 270 TSX at 2800 is even better, but it's still the 375HH.

If your choice falls between these two then it should be fine. If it does not and folks wants to market their opinion of why it's so good, then have at it, but I won't be buying that sales pitch any time soon.

[GrassLakeRon]

Thanks.

     I have been reading a lot on the classic rifles of Africa.  I just needed to know if they still were useful in this day and age.


Ron

[JJHACK]

Many of the old 40's are quite popular, however there is a good reason that they seem to have gone by the wayside. Better more powerful cartridges with less felt recoil are available.

The 458 win mag, the 375HH, the 30/06 and the 7mm mauser will not be displaced in popularity in the whole of Africa in my life time.

As things seem to be going now. The hunting of DG will not be as easy or popular when my generation is gone. At that point they will be handled like the other protected species on this planet. The politics and governments of Africa will handle the control and management of all DG within their own hired staff of people. People coming to hunt in Africa for DG will be gone in the next 50 years or less. Maybe even 30 years. Pressure from the rest of the worlds governments to stop hunting globally, and removing firearms from the civilians is mounting much faster then the hopeless and inconsistent effort of private groups to protect them.

It now starts at childhood with the indoctrination of young school children against hunting. My own 8 year old son comes home from school asking me about why we hunt and kill animals. I live in a completely rural conservative, farming and hunting community. There are only 13 children in my sons grade. It's small! Yet the class room books have statements in them regarding hunting being un-needed and unacceptable. If I were not here to clear this up for him how would he grow up with this opinion forming through his education. After all he read it in a school book and that's where I'm sending him to learn!

Time to really pay attention to the new rules in early school years that are going to form what we have as a future.

[WL44]

The question was for JJ, so no intention to answer it. This link pretty much echoes what JJ said and may be of value / interest: http://www.africansportinggazette.com/html/stories/story20.html

[GrassLakeRon]

Thanks for the link.

Ron

[Mad Dog]

GLR,  you looking at a double, or the ruger no. 1?  You will probably like the cartridge, but be forwarned, reloading components are expesive for it compared to say a 375 or 458.  Also, brass is harder to find, and bullet choices are more limited.

Mad Dog

[mcwoodduck]

Boddington likes the round.
I think he had a double and really liked how it handled and talked Hornady into making the CTG here again and now he sings the praises of the CTG to hopefully sell enought of what Hornady produced based on what he said about it.
If you have one in the closet or family it would be a great gun to take.
If you are looking for a new gun.  I would ask what calibers are easiest for a PH to find for you and pick one of those.
As one of the PH's said earlier expect your luggage to be lost and the stranger the caliber the longer you will wait in camp not hunting till your luggage is found, you are able to borrow a gun, or they find you ammo.
Same reason I use 308 Win and 338 Win mag as my travel hunting rifles.  In deer areas i will be able to find a box of 308 and where I elk hunt I will be able to find a box of 338 WM.

[WL44]

Mcwoodduck, you are correct, Craig Boddington's wife shoots (or used to shoot) a double in 450/400. I know this because a friend happened to lend me his DVD and I watched some of it last night  .

To his credit he really stresses that our choices as sport hunters are wider and different. That's why I asked before what people want the cartridges to do when they ask if they "work".

[gwindrider1]

If you have any knowledge of the .404 Jeffery, a direct comparison can be made to the 450/400 in either 3" or 3 1/4".  Basicly these cartridges push a 400 grn. projectile at 2150 fps.  They were conceived during a time when Cordite was the propellant, so are rather large cases.  They operate at low pressures compared to modern cartridges, and are fairly mild in recoil.  With a proper bullet, it should be capable of taking any game.

[don heath]

the .450/400 is a heck of alot more cartridge than the .45-70. It is legal for dangerous game (elephant and Buff) in every African country - even those where the .375 H&H is restricted. My Uncle has a woodward double in this round- Lovely, much more pleasant to shoot than a .375 bolt action!

If it is a double though, measure bore size!! The english used two different sizes or bore .408 and .411. Hornady uses bullets of .410 as a reasonable compromise, and they work well out of a .411 bore as do the .410 sized woodleighs. Have never tried the Hornady ammo in a .408 barrel.

What is fun though, is to load .41 mag pistol bullets and shoot varmits with them. the 210grn HP's simply vaporise monkeys. If you are looking at a Ruger No1 you can play with any and all pistol bullets and trail boss powder for some serious fun and load up with woodleighs if after big stuff