No1 Mk5,poor old thing.

[mrussel]

Just saw what I now realize is a Jungle carbine at a pawn show. Someone apperantly chucked up the barrel on the lathe and cut the front 3" down to about 1/2" in diameter for some stupid reason,as well as put a cheap plastic,and ill fitting butt pad on it from some kind of remington. Its clearly marked No5 Mk1 and "US Government Property" and has pristine rifling. (dont know why it was US property,but its marked as such) It would be really nice if not for the hatchet job someone did on it.  

 Lets all have a moment of silence for this poor old rifle.

[Foggy]

I dout it was a Jungle carbine. Probaly a Savage Lend lease gun for before we got into the war

Foggy

[mrussel]

I dout it was a Jungle carbine. Probaly a Savage Lend lease gun for before we got into the war

Foggy

 It was dated 1943

[Foxfire Rod and Gun]

It is defiantly not a No.5 Mk.1 SMLE "Jungle Carbine". It is a No.4 Mk.1 SMLE which has been terribly altered by someone in it's past life. Savage never made the "Jungle Carbine". They were all made in Great Britain except for some which were made in India later after WW II. The term "Jungle Carbine" is a colloquial term and not a name ever given to this rifle by Great Britain. If you are interested I can give you a link which will explain the history of the real JC. There is also information on the history of the Savage No. 4 Mk. 1 SMLE's as well.

Thanks,

James @ Foxfire Rod & gun

[Mikey]

I think if I found a rifle like that I would snatch it up and send it out for rebarrel in the original 303 Brit; nice tight chamber and .311 bore - oh yeah.  I once passed up a Parker-Hale #4 MkI sporter to give a young kid a chance with a good solid big game rifle - shoulda duped the kid and snatched the rifle for myself, no more Mr. Nice Guy here, lemme tellya. 

My problem was that I was hemming and hawing about buying it - price was incredibly good and I shoulda, dang it, but didn't, because I have 3 others that all shoot very, very well.

Although the SMLE actions are hefty I would prefer a nicely (read newly) barrelled 303 British over a 308 even though you can get the 308 in some newer, lighter weight actions.  Just a preference, but I would go back and get it and make it a pet project....................

[mrussel]

You are in fact correct,I just looked at the pictures i took of the poor thing. It IS in fact a No4 Mk1,I misremembered. What exactly tipped you off,seeing as you didn't see the lettering clearly on the side that said what it was,is it the date? Now that I know what exactly it is and having,I can see the differences. You on the other hand must have a sixth sense about Enfields,you dont even have to see it,or even get a good an accurate description to know exactly what it is.

[mrussel]

I think if I found a rifle like that I would snatch it up and send it out for rebarrel in the original 303 Brit; nice tight chamber and .311 bore - oh yeah.  I once passed up a Parker-Hale #4 MkI sporter to give a young kid a chance with a good solid big game rifle - shoulda duped the kid and snatched the rifle for myself, no more Mr. Nice Guy here, lemme tellya.  

My problem was that I was hemming and hawing about buying it - price was incredibly good and I shoulda, dang it, but didn't, because I have 3 others that all shoot very, very well.

Although the SMLE actions are hefty I would prefer a nicely (read newly) barrelled 303 British over a 308 even though you can get the 308 in some newer, lighter weight actions.  Just a preference, but I would go back and get it and make it a pet project....................

 What is something like that worth,very roughly. The asking price is 180,but they admit they have no idea what it is and admit its in terrible shape. I bet they would take far far less for it.

[Foxfire Rod and Gun]

Mikey: I have bought, sold, and collected British Small Magazine Lee Enfields (SMLE) for roughly 35 years now. By no means do I claim to be anything that approaches being an "expert", and I continually learn new information about them. However, I have made significant investments in a number of very good reference books. These have been the source of information and have saved me a considerable amount of money over the years.

For the one which you describe if I really wanted to have it about $75 to less than $100.00 would be my absolute highest price to pay. What you may wish to consider is looking for one of the Golden State / Santa Fe No. 5 "Jungle Carbines. These are No.4 Mk.1 SMLE's which have been converted to look much like an original. I have one and actually it is a very nice, clean conversion. The plus to having one of these conversions is that the "floating zero" is not a problem since they do not have the metal removed from the barrel shoulder and receiver which was the primary cause of this on the originals. In very good condition these can be had in the $200.00 to $250.00 price range. Golden State also used No.1 Mk.III SMLE's for this conversion as well. You can tell these by the rear sights being mounted on the barrel rather than on the rear of the receiver bridge.

There were also No. 5 Mk.1 "Jungle Carbines" made in India as well. These should be marked on the metal wrist band as RFI (Rifle Factory Ishapore). These are not quite as expensive as the originals, but more expensive that the Golden State ones. If it were me I'd pass on the one in the pawn shop and look for a Golden State Santa Fe No.5. I hope that this may help.

FR&G

[mrussel]

I was considering offering him 50 or 75 bucks,but Im not really sure I want it,even at that price. Its in pretty bad... or sad... shape.

[Siskiyou]

A Golden State Arms, “Jungle Carbine.”

[Steve P]

I have a number of the Enfields.  .308 from Ishapore, one of the original .410 conversions, an original U.S. Savage, and quite a few (5 or 6) of the No. / Mk whatevers.  I have never seen an original Enfield that was arsenal remanufactured to the Mark V Jungle Carbine.  I have seen a lot of the kit guns made to look like the aresenal Mark Vs.  I have seen advertisements for one of the originals, but they were priced more than all of my other Enfields put together. 

Shooters...oh, boy...they are shooters!!

Steve  

[Foxfire Rod and Gun]

Most of the No.4 Mk.1 SMLE's converted to look like a No.5 Mk.1 "Jungle Carbine" were done by Golden State Arms in California back in the 1950 & 60's. I have never seen or read about of these conversions being done at  British arsenal.

FR&G

[mrussel]

Most of the No.4 Mk.1 SMLE's converted to look like a No.5 Mk.1 "Jungle Carbine" were done by Golden State Arms in California back in the 1950 & 60's. I have never seen or read about of these conversions being done at  British arsenal.

FR&G

 I suspect this one was done in someones garage with a hacksaw. Apparently he had a lathe he barely knew how to use as well.