Author Topic: Water as a fuel?  (Read 1198 times)

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Offline Ruskin

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Water as a fuel?
« on: August 03, 2010, 11:24:25 AM »
There is a vehicle running around town with a sign advertising water as a fuel in the vehicle.

I am going to stop him and ask if I can see what he has done.

I know that hydrogen component of water can be a fuel.  The task is to break the bond into H and O.

Has anyone seen this done?

Offline Dee

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2010, 01:43:10 PM »
It's been talked about for decades but the technology is expensive.
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Offline PowPow

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 02:23:26 PM »
Most fuels are complex hydrocarbons that react with oxygen to give off heat, water vapor, maybe some carbon dioxide, and some other stuff.
Seems that water is low on the energy chain already.
Please forgive my little Newtonian mind, but how would it work that water would be a fuel?
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 02:35:52 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer%27s_water_fuel_cell

Others have tried as well

The design flaw is with the energy input/output ratio. While it is possible to produce a hydrogen flame that burns using sea water, the amount of energy it puts out is less than the amount of energy required to create.

First, there is no such thing as HHO or "Brown's gas".
2H20 + energy yields 2H2 + O2.
Second, it takes more energy to split apart a water molecule than you get back from burning the mix in an engine. The idea that you can draw power from the car's electrical system and make a fuel(H2 and O2) to mix back in again and somehow get more power shows an absolute ignorance of basic science. You can't get more energy out of a system than you put in.
These systems all rely on converting energy into some other form, and then adding it back into the system. During that "process" they claim to gain an increase in energy, somehow. Not going to happen.

As always, the question is never answered - Why isn't every manufacturer that makes an engine using this "technology"? It's just old-fashioned electrolysis of water, after all, very low tech. No patent problems. Reason is its not efficient. the amount of energy it puts out is less than the amount of energy required to create.
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Offline PowPow

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 03:00:04 PM »
Wonder if you can put that car up on blocks, run it in reverse and fill up the tank?

Every so often you run into a guy who thinks he can hook a generator to an electric motor and power his house...
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 03:48:19 PM »
Some people think that when you put a car in reverse the motor turns backwards.
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2010, 05:34:09 AM »
the neatest thing I've seen is the motor that runs on smoke.
I think it came from england or somewhere.
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Offline PowPow

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2010, 05:36:10 AM »
Did it also run on mirrors?
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Offline blind ear

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2010, 10:27:57 AM »
There has been a method of burning gases from burned wood as engine fuel since WWII.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2010, 10:46:54 AM »
A diesel engine will rev up (run) on smoke . Fighter planes in WW2 used water injected into the cylinders to increase compression and get more flight time out of aval. on board fuel.
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Offline PowPow

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2010, 11:08:01 AM »
How does a vehicle engine capture smoke?
Are we talking about ambient smoke. i.e, the smoke off of another car ahead of you on the road?
Or is it some kind or recovery cycle where it uses some of its own smoke and some new fuel?
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2010, 11:17:12 AM »
How does a vehicle engine capture smoke?
Are we talking about ambient smoke. i.e, the smoke off of another car ahead of you on the road?
Or is it some kind or recovery cycle where it uses some of its own smoke and some new fuel?
Smoke can come from many places . Fire trucks have to be careful at fires a speical kill switch is in some . The smoke can get to the intake and cause it to rev up past redline. I don't know of any pratical application
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Offline Rex in OTZ

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2010, 12:52:40 PM »
I remember seeing a article about a $600 Hydrogen generator the size of a large thermos bottle that fit under the hood and injected Hydrogen gas into the intake manifold boosting the fuel economy of the existing engine's fuel wither gas or Diesel, so this was a hybred not a 100% hydrogen fueld vehicle, they claimed reports of 4-11 mpg increase in fuel economy on mainly highway use vehicles.  passenger vehicles and commercial trucks were featured.

The use of wood or charcoal as a internal combustion engine fuel source is well documented.
This fuel source has been round quite awhile, it faded out due to the fact that it isant near as effeciant, safe, easy maintenance as a gasoline or diesel powerd engine's.
during the OPEC oil crisses of the 1970's FEMA performed feasability study's on converting std  gasoline farming tractors of the time to sucessfully use woodgas or syngas some modern cars and trucks have been known to be powerd by the gasification process, asian taxi's fuel'd by charcoal were used as late as the mid 1970's, a university in southern Florida even modified a enduro size motorcycle to run off woodgasification.
A few articals on woodgasification have been featured in FARMSHOW publication, one that featured a 80yro Canadian farmer/ ex-solder that recalled post WWII Allied war relief in europe who built his own from recollection takeing over 3 years to perfect it enough to run.
In occupied Denmark during WWII, 95% of all mobile farm equipment, tractors, trucks, stationary engines,fishing & ferry boats were powerd by woodgas generators, in neutral Sweden 40% of all motor traffic was operated useing wood or charcoal gasification.
WIKIPEDIA has a good summary of it,  GOOGLE is a great source as well.
High efficency wood stoves use a catalitic converter that reburns the wood smoke extracting more of the volitile gasses generated when wood is burned.
A barrel stove is horribly inefficent when you consider all the wasted woodgas that is vented off up the stove pipe.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2010, 01:42:08 PM »
We have some forklifts running on Hydrogen in a test facility, but the Hydrogen is extracted from natural gas.  To extract it from water, as stated above, requires more energy than you get. 

I asked, why not just run the natural gas?

If we had built all the nuclear facilities we were supposed to back in the day, we could use the excess power at night to make hydrogen, which could then power autos.

As for now, we are still reliant on fossil fuels, like it or not.  Even the nat. gas is a fossil fuel.

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Offline PowPow

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2010, 02:33:27 PM »
If we had built all the nuclear facilities we were supposed to back in the day, we could use the excess power at night to make hydrogen, which could then power autos.

The reaction to global warming would not be necessary because there would not be any CO2 from the production of hydrogen or from its use.

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Offline blind ear

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2010, 06:18:17 PM »
Old "MOTHER EARTH NEWS" archives should have some info on how the wood gas systems for autos worked. I remember reading articles on it there. eddiegjr
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Water as a fuel?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2010, 06:53:30 PM »
When I was in Jr. High there was the solar race across Australia.
My science teacher wanted to enter the race from our school and asked use to break into teams and come up with what we would use as a solar powerd car.  The team I was on thought if we used solar power to rip water into H and O and compress it into a tanks we could convert an engine to run on the H2O and have the exhaust drain back into the collecting tank that will use the altinator and the solar power to rip apart the water back into fuel.  A positive and negitive terminal will privide only one gas at each terminal that can be collected.
We did water a few weeks before in the lab and knew this.  We also made charcoal and wood fuel.  hen you burn wood with out air volital gases excape and can be collected and condensed.  Little caloric value compared to gas (petrol).  By Product is charcoal for BBQ and grilling
After some class discussion about adding or subrtacting features our teacher submitted the idea to the Poeple at the race.
They came back with a no internal combustion engine cars no mater if the fuel is solar made.
We figured we would need a large car like a suburban to have enough square footage for the solar voltaic cells to make H2  and O to power the car for a 30 miles or so.  the leg of each part of the race.  we made weight to power, fuel consumption, and fuel regeneration charts and found we could pull all the safety gear out of the car and basically have a car with solar pannels as the covereings and a small engine, fuel tanks, compressor, fuel holding tank, small tires, brakes, battereis, and a couple altinators.  And a plastic chair.
Since then  never understood why the hybrid or electric cars did not have a roof made from a solar pannel to recharge while parked.  You drive 10 to 20 miles to work and park out of the shade and you may be able to get a few extra miles back home if you live in the sun belt.