Author Topic: Extractor Spring on SB2 22-250 (Read 1314 times)

kanilure · « **on:** June 04, 2010, 03:47:48 PM »

I need help with the right sequence to install the extractor spring on an SB2. I bought the rifle and discovered it would not eject a cartridge. When I took it apart I discovered it was missing the Extractor Spring, part #6 on the attached diagram. I ordered and promptly received 2 of them from H&R. It looked easy to install but not so. I have tried every which way to Sunday and I cannot get the little bugger in there so the ejector will work! Since I didn't take it out I don't know whether it slides all the way back to the cam extractor or not. I have one of the pins to the cam extractor out, but not the one that holds it in. Dunno the proper sequence of re=installation!! This is my first Handi-Rifle. Can anyone help me? Thanks! Kanilure

http://www.hr1871.com/documents/manuals/HR_NEF_HANDI_RIFLE_MANUAL.pdf

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** June 04, 2010, 04:06:57 PM »

The extractor leaf spring lays on top of the extractor in the recess(when the barrel is underlug up), little curved part to the rear.

Tim

A pic is worth....

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2010, 04:20:40 PM »

I will wait for the experts to chime in on this one, but the illustration shown from your link to H&R indicates it's placement is the exact opposite of one that I have. The spring is actually on the bottom of the extractor rather than on top as indicated in the picture.

If your's is an extractor as shown, they will only extract the brass, not eject it.

Bill

EDIT***

Forgot to say welcome kanilure! to the Handi side of GBO.

kanilure · « **Reply #3 on:** June 04, 2010, 04:33:37 PM »

Awesome! I was beginning to think that the factory diagram was wrong!! Found it in the FAQs too. Thanks O-R-E Gun and Quickdtoo!
Also found the barrel twist rate in FAQs. This forum is great! Any way to make a donation besides pay pal? I don't have that.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** June 04, 2010, 04:47:21 PM »

Sure, see my signature line, the link will take you to a thread with Graybeard's mailing address, thanks.....and welcome aboard!!

Tim

kanilure · « **Reply #5 on:** June 04, 2010, 08:51:57 PM »

OR E Gun Bill or Quickdtoo;

Well, Got the extractor working right. Now the gun won't lock up when an empty cartridge (once fired PMP brass) is chambered. Locks up fine when there is no cartridge in the chamber. Darn if I can see the extractor or the head of the cartridge protruding any, but that seems like what it must be. The release lever has a little play in it when not engaged, but it seems to be working ok when you close the action. The action will apparently not close far enough to actuate the barrel locking mechanism with a cartridge in it. I would try some new rounds, but all I have is reloads, however, I have been reloading for 22-250 for 20 years and I have put the calipers on the cartridge and it is within specs. Any ideas, or does this one need to back to H&R?

Sincerely, Kanilure

trotterlg · « **Reply #6 on:** June 04, 2010, 09:21:02 PM »

It is normal for it to not lock up on fired brass. The design of the action causes this problem, only full length sized brass works on most H&R reloads, no neck sizing. Everything sounds like it is as it should be. If you are having trouble chambering your resized brass you need to check the setup on your sizing die. Larry

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #7 on:** June 05, 2010, 06:54:33 AM »

PMP brass? Pretoria Metal Pressings Ltd., Pretoria, Republic of South Africa?
How is the quality of that brass?

Bill

kanilure · « **Reply #8 on:** June 05, 2010, 11:31:05 AM »

O R E Gun Bill;

The PMP brass is hard compared to Remington. It would stick in my Savage 110V so I had to quit using it. Gave the Savage and all the Remington to my son so he would have something legal to shoot when the moved to California. Still had some of the once fired PMP laying around so I thought I would load up some for this rifle. Maybe that wasn't such a good idea. I'm gonna try what Larry suggested, but get some new 22-250 first. I am not sure how to do full length resizing without neck resizing. Maybe Larry can elaborate on that.

kanilure · « **Reply #9 on:** June 05, 2010, 11:34:46 AM »

Larry; Could you elaborate on how to do full length resizing without neck resizing? Do I leave out the decapper? I could do that and deprime with a decapping die, which I have. Thanks for the suggestion. Kanilure

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #10 on:** June 05, 2010, 12:18:14 PM »

I might direct you back the the FAQ's again and look for Handloading for a Handi. There are some useful tips that you may find helpful.

Bill

kanilure · « **Reply #11 on:** June 05, 2010, 12:21:55 PM »

Thanks Bill;

I'm there now. Will look for that one.

Kanilure

OR-E-Gun Bill · « **Reply #12 on:** June 05, 2010, 12:46:05 PM »

HANDLOADING FOR THE HANDI is another to look for.

Bill

kanilure · « **Reply #13 on:** June 05, 2010, 02:19:46 PM »

Bill;

Well, I read Handloading for the Handi and tried a couple of things. I turned in the die and resized a couple of times, trimmed the cases and cleaned the chamber, and degreased the locking mechanism. It still wouldn't close on a cartridge. Then I put a bullet in the cartridge, seated it to the canilure, still no go. Haven't tried new ammo yet, but I am not hopeful about that.

Will post after I get some factory ammo.

Thanks for all your help!

Kanilure

revbc · « **Reply #14 on:** June 05, 2010, 02:37:12 PM »

On you FL die try turning the die in 1/4 of a turn size the brass and try it in the gun. Go 1/4 turn at a time until the handi locks up good. When you full length re-size you also neck size, when you neck size (with neck sizing die) you do not re-size the chamber part of the brass only the neck.

necchi · « **Reply #15 on:** June 05, 2010, 04:20:18 PM »

Ya that's my guess too revcbc,,he's not really "Full Length" re-sizing. But that's a topic for a different forum.

kanilure · « **Reply #16 on:** June 05, 2010, 05:17:41 PM »

Revbc, Necchi;

Hmmm. I did that, went about two full turns in, eventually. That cartridge is now 1.900 inches, Speer book says 1.912. But, measuring the neck distance is too difficult for me with a caliper. I see what you are saying about the neck though. That must be what is keeping the cartridge from seating in the chamber. I have examined the chamber, looks clean and smooth, but I don't have any gauges. Guess I could try the procedure again. I have to admit, I am almost stumped. This is my first reloading experience with a Handi Rifle.

I tried the procedure again. Got to 2 1/2 turns in measuring cartridge length the whole time, which increased by about .003. Then I trimmed back to 1.900. Still no go. Is it possible my Lee die is worn out?? I have reloaded about 2000 rounds of 22-250 through it over a period of about 20 years, but I didn't think that would affect it. Its clean, too. I am stumped.

Gonna get a box of Remington 22-250 and see if it will close on factory loads.

You guys have any other suggestions?

Thanks, Kanilure

necchi · « **Reply #17 on:** June 05, 2010, 06:34:47 PM »

If your confident your getting a full length resize,,it could be your not closing with enough authority, These handi rifles need a good swft, firm motion to close proper.
Maybe,,did you lube that extrator? Lot's of guy's will use a dry/graphite type in there, but I just put a drop of oil on it,,,
I always pay close attention too keep the shelf and latch dry. With the barrel off the frame, you should be able to move that extrator in and out freely with your fingers,,The roll pin for the extractor should be centered in it's lug hole and not off to one side or the other,
just tossin out ideas

NFG · « **Reply #18 on:** June 06, 2010, 08:41:20 AM »

You need to buy a set of Hornady headspace guages or make one by drilling a .9/32 - 5/16" hole in a piece of 1" sq or round aluminum, brass, or cut off a 1" piece of 3/8" ID copper tubing square the ends, chamfer the inside of the tube just enough to smooth it out...

I think EVERONE should have a set of headspace AND bullet comparators...they are so cheap, easy to use, solve so many mechanical problems with ammo and rifles so much quicker and you can make your own simply and easily also...I've been making these types of gauges for well over 50 years...too bad I'm not smart in the business end...could have jump Stoney by at least 30 years. Hahahahahahah

Set this "gauge" over the neck of the brass, it should set near midshoulder or slightly lower...wiggle it around just a smidge to seat it evenly while you take the measurement, you will feel where the gauge seats and the measurement is at it's lowest...and measure the over all length. The overall length from base to the end of the guage MINUS the length/thickness of the gauge is the actual headspace. The TOTAL overal length including the guage is a REFERENCE NUMBER...NOT AN ABSOLUTE MEASUREMENT. You have to be very careful with the measurements because were talking about thousands here.

You want to compare a case fired in that rifle, UNSIZED, to a fired and resized case at the same point on their SHOULDERS...subtract the larger measurement from the smaller measurement, minus the guage thickness will give you the amount of SHOULDER SET BACK...it should be roughly 0.001" to 0.015" or anywhere in between.

The measurement of 1.900" and 1.912" is NOT the headspace, it is the case overall length...it might be too long for the chamber so you need to trim it back to roughly 1.905" or thereabouts...cases ALWAYS lengthen(mostly) when resized.

From the description of your problem and IF the Handi will fully lock up WITHOUT a round in the chamber, you just haven't set the shoulder back far enough. If it WON'T lockup empty then you have other issues.

Were these cases you are using for the measurements fired in this rifle or in some other rifle?

Run the press ram up as far as it will go...turn the die down until it contacts the shell holder...pull the ram down and turn the die down an additional TWO - TWO and a HALF turns and lock it.

This should take out ALL the slop in the ram linkage and push the case shoulder back as far as it will go. Be sure to watch the die contact the ram fully at the very top of the stroke as the last few thousands of sizing can fool you...ask me how I know.

If this doesn't allow the rifle to lockup on a fired and and FULLY sized case there are other issues going on that need to be addressed as soon as the headspace issue is addressed.

Luck

kanilure · « **Reply #19 on:** June 06, 2010, 05:31:20 PM »

Good advice, NFG. The cartridges were fired in another gun. I think you may be right. I just can't push the cartridge up far enough with the ram to fully close that gap between the ram and the die, this PMP brass is just too hard! Gonna get some factory Remington and see if I can safely fire a round or two with it, then take the fired cartridges and do what you suggested. I know from reloading 22-250 for other rifles that the Remington brass is softer than the PMP brass, maybe I can get the last few thousandths with the Remington brass.

Several of the other posters also suggested that I just was not getting a full length resizing. I have had the same problem with my Lee dies on .223, but not larger calibers, or, maybe it's just me. Maybe I am afraid of breaking this 'C' shaped ram, I broke one a few years ago. I think I may have a stronger press here with a Lee autoloader I bought for .223 that did not work. I will take a look at it, maybe I can get more push with a better ram. This IS starting to sound like one for the reloading forum!

I may spring for that set of gauges too.

I'll let you know in a couple of days how it went. I am going to set off those first rounds remotely with a sandbagged gun. Now I am afraid it will pop open on me and I don't want to be holding it if it does!

Thanks for the advice!

Kanilure

kanilure · « **Reply #20 on:** June 14, 2010, 07:39:19 PM »

Well, took the Handi 22-250 to the range a couple of days ago with some new Remington ammo, and it performed fine. No sticking rounds, no trouble with ejector or latch. I guess the jury is in on my reloading procedures. I was not getting full length resizing of my brass. Now that I have some brass fired in my Handi, I am going to get a better press and reload for it. Thanks for all the help on this forum! You guys know your stuff.

NFG · « **Reply #21 on:** June 15, 2010, 08:26:28 AM »

You DO need a good press with plenty of leverage and little or no frame flex...RCBS Rockchucker is one of the best...I've used mine about 45 years. Redding's Big Boss is a very good heavy duty press also. If you have the buck I would go with either RCBS or Reddings "Ultra" presses...their about $100 buck more apiece, but if you even have an small thought about going into wildcatting or well beyound loading a few hundred rounds a year I would go with the bigger presses. When I bought my Rockchucker it was just about as big as you could get without going megabucks.

Now you need to adjust your dies so you just don't or just barely push back the shoulder. I would set my sizer to size down about 3/4 the neck length on a couple of cases...reload and fire them a few times to see if the shoulder moves forward...when the case gets long enough to cause the action to NOT close and lock up, THEN reset your sizer down a little at a time, trying the empty sized case in the action until the action closes and locks up firmly...THEN LOCK the sizer. This(usually?) is the place where the brass is worked the least and lasts the longest. A bushing FL die will even reduce the neck working to the minimum. Most of this is trial and try again to get to that "special" point.

I keep pushing gauges...they are the cheapest and most used tools you can buy...I don't know if anyone is listening...no affirmative responses...pretty much par for the net...and present day humans sad to say... no matter what forum.

Do a search for NFG here...I've posted many of my tests and experiments and the results, plus many ways of improving your rifle and ammo...you should find something of value...or not.

Luck