Author Topic: Can you identify this sword ?  (Read 1082 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31293
  • Gender: Male
Can you identify this sword ?
« on: December 06, 2009, 01:56:29 PM »
  I have several older swords I have collected over the years. Most are decorative, but this little "plain Jane" tells me it is a "work" sword.
  Handle is cast iron, molded to blade. A bit rusty on the tip, it is about 24" long overall.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Cohort

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 66
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can you identify this sword ?
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2010, 11:44:32 AM »
Digging around in this forum i would have to say that is a Dirk.  A Boarding ,or a Naval Dirk to be exact , ,perhaps a Scottish and not a fancy one so it was used for combat . 1700s to the early 1800s would be my guess.
The iron handle is what gives it the balance you feel when you pick it up ,remove the weight from the blade and transfer it to the hilt.  The signature crest is from who most likely built it  ,not that i am right. I have been wrong before ,but that blade and hilt is classic of a Dirk and not the sword used by Artillery during the Civil War.
A fancy version of a Dirk is seen here ,this is an excellent site to use in trying to ID a blade or sword. And they will help you anyway they can if you ask them for help.  http://kultofathena.com/images%5CXL1278_4_l.jpg
They are the contact people to use if you want the real thing ,and it will cost you ,but it will be the real thing.
I have seen some of their Katana's go for over $125,000.00 before . And they were very much a Katana .
Show courage ,show unity .

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31293
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can you identify this sword ?
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2010, 02:05:15 PM »
After looking very closely I later discovered a couple markings on the sword which were on the flat edges of the ricasso. One side had a crown with the number 21 below, the other side the name..Mole. Doing a bit of research, I found that you are obviously correct in that it is of British (England) manufacture. From what I could glean, there was an importer named Robert Mole who brought arms from England, many for the confederacy..probably before the civil war. The monogram on the cast handle is likely RM..for Robert Mole.
  Although the last few inches of the tip is quite rusty, causing the edge to be slightly serrated, 18.6" in length. No sheath, and those pointed parts of the cast handle came down over the sheath, with ricassos behind and in sheath. Overall length 24"+, Handgrip slightly small for my extra large hands.
  I just bought a new camera, and would post some new and better pics, except I am struggling with "shrinking" the photos. Yes, i have found the photo share sites, but I am still struggling.  :D  Oh well, that's what I get for being an old codger.  :D ::)
   
  I also have a brass "fishscale"  Ames. I don't believe it is the artillery sword, since it does not have the blade which widens as it goes toward the tip, the blade being shaped much like the Mole sword..plus it is in much nicer condition.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline mechanic

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5112
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can you identify this sword ?
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2010, 04:19:00 PM »
Very nice Ironglow, and if you looked underneath that coat of rust, I think you will find damascus....

Be n
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline Cohort

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 66
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can you identify this sword ?
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2010, 04:21:58 PM »
Yes  , i believe the lack of a leaf shape blade on the sword your talking about ,with the fish scales on the brass hilt is what was used by a "FEW" Artillery spotters in the Confederate side of the conflict.  I had a repro of one of those years ago and i think i gave it away after i got serious about swords. The Repro was from India ,and the paper work said that it was a Roman Gladius just like was used by the Civil War Artillery Batterys !   As a whole i think that was what it was trying to convey . But even as a kid i knew a lot more than that about what were the facts ,and this site is full of CW Historian's who could set me straight if i were to assume i knew .
But i do know to begin with Rome did not use a Gladius , She used a Aquilifer . Either of which im sad to say ,would be no contest against a mounted Calvary Trooper with a 36" Sabre. The short sword on land was largely due to symbolism ,and never was any more than that.
Your piece however is a very good find ,for the Aquilifer shape ( Or Dirk ) design was still used by the US ,& The Royal Navies as the working  blade right up until after the Civil War. After that the Cutlass ruled all ,right up until 1941 ,the start of WW2.
But our Coast Guard cant seem to ever give up their beloved 1917 Cutlass ,for Boarding and Search Enforcement  .
I wonder why?  ::)
Show courage ,show unity .

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31293
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can you identify this sword ?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2010, 07:33:30 AM »
..And the Coast guard is not alone..My grandson is a Marine platoon Sgt. and he has his dress sword. Of course there is a manual for sword drill...and they practice..
   here's a short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3JmZwFUkCQ&feature=related
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Cohort

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 66
  • Gender: Male
Re: Can you identify this sword ?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2010, 09:42:52 AM »
Kiss the girl first !  :-*  Ironglow those are Marlow Whites , VERY good stuff ! That only the Marines and the Air Force i think still buy in quantity .
A question that was put forth by Oliver North in his War Stories series was.
Why is it that our Military Officers , and our NCO's  hang on to their Swords above all else ?  Tradition ,to surrender that Sword to anyone is a sign of defeat ,and when's the last time you ever saw a Marine openly show he was defeated ?
As far as the Coast Guard , there are storys that in some cases where an NCO is always present with the 1917 when boarding a vessel at sea .
Tradition ,or the intimidation factor ,it always seems to work .
Edged weapons are anything but gone in todays high tech world. With the advances in metallurgy ,and with the house clearing and close quarter engagements we now are seeing. Swords and Tomahawks are considered front line weapons in a lot of cases ,where even a shotgun can be out of place .





Show courage ,show unity .