Author Topic: Swaging a jacketed bullet  (Read 3433 times)

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Offline Peshtigo71

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Swaging a jacketed bullet
« on: August 01, 2010, 05:42:00 PM »
   I've never done any swaging of bullets but now I have a Winchester in .351 SLR and it looks like I'll need to look into this for my reloading.   I'm wondering if  I can use a 158 grain .357 bullet and swage it down to the .351 that I need. Would this remove .006 from the jacket or compress it to size?  Does the bullet go in the die nose or base first?  George Nonte in his work 'Modern Handloading' somewhat explains making a homemade die for this and since I wouldn't be reloading that many rounds I'm wondering if this is feasible.  If not does anyone know who sells an appropriate die.   I appreciate any help you guys might have.
Among all the people were 700 chosen left-handed
men; every one could sling a stone at a hair's breadth and not miss.  Judges 20:16

Offline talon

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Re: Swaging a jacketed bullet
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 06:19:55 AM »
It is possible to reduce a .357 jacketed bullet to .351 caliber using a common Bullet Reducing Die (BRD). One can be purchased from CH/4-D, RCE, or Corbin Manufacturing.  You can also have one made, but a die maker will tell you that the exact ID size will depend upon the bullets you intend to reduce: e.g., the ID could be .351, o4 .3505, or .3508, etc). As a general rule of thumb, reduction of more than .005" is not recommended for accurate bullets as the jacket may have the tendency to 'spring back' from the now-reduced lead core, but the .351 in not particularly known for it's accuracy. A BRD set usually consists of a body and a punch. The punch face is very close to the bullet diameter you are reducing to. The procedure is to place the bullet's base on the punch and push it through the die. This can  be done using a reloading press as long the punch can feed the bullet all the way past the 'reducer' part of the die body ( most often a built-in carbide ring). If the press has compound linkage that gives greater force to the last portion of the down stroke, so much the better. And don't forget the use of swaging lubrication. As to practicality, a BRD die set will cost at least $80, probably more if you have a 'friend' make one for you. If you don't intend to make more than 500 bullets, you should consider buying what you need from a specialty shop like Buffalo Arms or one of the bullet swagers that visit this Board. As long as we're speaking of reloading for the .351wsl, make sure you can get the brass and reloading dies before going after bullets. All three are difficult/costly to come by. And remember, your reloads must be calibrated for the rifle you have: only build one or two cartridges using recommended tables and see if they cycle upon being fired, before loading more using the powder/bullets you have on hand.

Offline Peshtigo71

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Re: Swaging a jacketed bullet
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2010, 12:43:30 PM »
     talon, Thanks for the response and the information, it helped a lot.  I know that properly stamped brass is available from different sources, if it's in stock ::),and the dies are a little pricey.  If the jacket should spring back from the brass is there a possibility of it seperating from the core?   I'm not sure if the 158 gr. bullet is heavy enough to function the action so I'll need to do a little more research.   Thanks again.
Among all the people were 700 chosen left-handed
men; every one could sling a stone at a hair's breadth and not miss.  Judges 20:16

Offline talon

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Re: Swaging a jacketed bullet
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2010, 06:14:59 PM »
According to Mr John Henwood ( The Forgotten Winchesters, pub:1995), 158 gr reduced .358"d bullets work fine. He recommends reducing it in stages using two reducing dies.  "Spring back" of the copper jacket refers to the fact that when you cold compress un annealed metals, all attempt, to some extent, to return to their larger size. The reduction process squeezes the bullet, it doesn't trim them. Bullet jacket metal does this to a much greater extent than lead. By 'greater extent', I mean that if you reduce a .358" jacketed bullet, to .3508", the jacket can spring back to about .351". There could very well be a void between the lead core and jacket by as much as .0001. Not much, for sure, but a separation never the less. I doubt that the jacket will actually separate from the core at the velocities the .351 operates. Too, such a reduction will force some of the core material (lead) out of the jacket. The nose could even become distorted. Professionals who do this reduction usually have a point-up die to reshape the reduced bullet's nose, but the only way to cure spring back is to reduce the bullet a few thousand's more than the final diameter, and then reswage the bullet to final diameter. For jacketed calibers above 30 caliber, this reswage is best done using a high pressure swaging press.  An alternative is to cast your own .351 bullets if you can find a mold. While the .351wsl is an OK whitetail gun in dense woods/heavy brush, you'll be spending hours trying to find those expensive brass in the grass. Therefore, cast bullets on the range, where your brass is easily picked up is just as much fun as using jacketed bullets.

Offline Peshtigo71

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Re: Swaging a jacketed bullet
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 05:14:28 PM »
     talon,  I think I'll have to go w/ your suggestion to look online for my bullets. I'm still quite the beginner
               at reloading w/ just enough book shmartz to get me into trouble.  I have no background on cast
               bullets and I really don't have the capabilities or time to do it myself.  I was just thinking that the
               .357 bullet would give me an easier and more readily available option other than the 180 gr. soft
               point and the 190 fmj. Are there any peculiarities to loading cast bullets?  I know that at a certain
               velocity I have to use a gas check.  I sure appreciate your help. Thanks, Peshtigo
Among all the people were 700 chosen left-handed
men; every one could sling a stone at a hair's breadth and not miss.  Judges 20:16

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Swaging a jacketed bullet
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2010, 05:25:40 PM »
Rick Tunnel will make you a custom sized push thru die similar to the Lee for less than $30 shipped, if you're interested, PM me and I'll give you his email. I've not used his dies, but I've swaged .416" jacketed bullets down to .412" using a Lee .410" push thru die, they spring back to just right for my .405 Winchester which as a .412" bore. ;D.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline shrail

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Re: Swaging a jacketed bullet
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2010, 11:04:35 PM »
Tim

Please post Tunnels  e mail addres or web address for his dies




Offline quickdtoo

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Re: Swaging a jacketed bullet
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2010, 05:43:58 AM »
He doesn't have a website, and I don't post personal emails on the open forum, only in PMs.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Swaging a jacketed bullet
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2010, 05:40:13 PM »
Rick Tunnel will make you a custom sized push thru die similar to the Lee for less than $30 shipped, if you're interested, PM me and I'll give you his email. I've not used his dies, but I've swaged .416" jacketed bullets down to .412" using a Lee .410" push thru die, they spring back to just right for my .405 Winchester which as a .412" bore. ;D.

Tim

  At the risk of being yelled at, i want to point out that you "swage" a bullet UP to a larger size/diameter, and you "draw" a bullet DOWN to a smaller size/diameter.  At least, that's how it works when it comes to bullet swageing...

  OK, go ahead and yell at me...  lol

  DM

Offline moto357

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Re: Swaging a jacketed bullet
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2010, 09:10:44 AM »
i size down .458 bullets to about 450 for use in my muzzleloader.  there is springback as others mentioned, varries from diferent bullets depending on jacket thickness and construction.  my father also takes advantage of this and he once tried some hornady 325FTX bullets sized to .452 for his colt, they're now his favorite bullet in that gun  8)