7x57 Mauser in a 7x57R Drilling

[dougk]

Will shooting a 7x57 Mauser in a 7x57R drilling cause any problems?
thanks
Doug

[ncsurveyor]

Aside from extraction?

[dougk]

I am looking at a 7x57R that I know had 7x57 Mauser shot out of it.

I am wondering if the the 7x57 Mauser will cause damage.

[ncsurveyor]

They were "typically" loaded to the same pressures,  designed so that the rimmed round could be used in drillings and double rifles for easier extraction.

HOWEVER a modern non-rimmed cartridge could have been designed for a more modern rifle, and therefore may have been loaded to a higher pressure.

This would be your primary concern.

Do you know what the load was for the 7mauser round?  Was it a factory load, or a reload, and if the latter, do you know the specs?

[BBF]

Having neither I am only thinking would the Drilling like it if the round headspaces on the shoulder instead the rim.

[pastorp]

If the drilling is on-face I would believe it has not been damaged. Is it tight & on face? If so then your fine. 

Regards,

[saltydog]

In general you have headspacing, pressure and extraction issues that would be introduced by use of rimless ammo in a rifle designed for rimmed cases. The rimless case headpaces off the shoulder, at the "datum line", the rimmed version off the rim. The lengths of the two cartridges from the rim to the shoulder "datum line" would have to be exactly the same, or there indeed would be problems with excess headspace. A full length sizing die can quite easily cause problems in this regard. In terms of the 7X57R vs 7X57 they're different cartridges. The difference isn't just rimmed vs rimless. CIP 7X57 and 7X57R standard dimensional specifications for length to shoulder and shoulder angle, although very close, are not the same. Also, CIP max pressure for the rimless is 15% higher than that of the rimmed (56,565 PSI vs 49,313 PSI). If you're loading for a drop down barrel action, you need to respect the significant difference in pressure. This is the Norma discussion - specs
http://www.norma.cc/content.asp?Typ=59&Lang=2&DocumentID=268&Submeny=4&Rubrik=Calibers&Title=7x57R%20Mauser

The larger question is why would you want to do this - as rimmed ammo is available from Norma. It is a false economy as you are not going to shoot the rifle as much as say a varmit rifle. I would pass on the rifle if it has had non rimmed ammo shot out of it as you do not know the competence of the shooter to address all the issues.  

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

I believe the question was about damage that might have been caused by prior use of 7 X 57 ammo in a combo.  It was not about the in-advisability of using 7 X 57 ammo in the firearm in the future.

For future use STICK TO PROPERLY LOADED 7 X 57R.  Ammo is rare in Canada but not impossible to find, but wait to get proper ammo before firing.

Would prior use of 7 X 57 Mauser ammo damage a combo?  Possibly, especially if fired a lot.  Whether there has been damage could only be confirmed by a good gunsmith.  About all I know what to do is check for a wiggle at the hinge.  But do it with the fore end iron off.  Hold the butt under your arm and twist the barrels.  If there is any movement seen at the breech, have it checked out, or pass.

I have a Brno 304 and actually seldom fire it.  Knowing they are versatile, but uncommon makes me think carefully.  I only check the sighting before potential use, and I don't use it for general plinking, etc.

I use Norma 175 or 160 gr bullets with starting loads of 4831.  Norma bullets are .283 and hopefully keep pressure down.

[saltydog]

I believe the question was about damage that might have been caused by prior use of 7 X 57 ammo in a combo.  It was not about the in-advisability of using 7 X 57 ammo in the firearm in the future.

For future use STICK TO PROPERLY LOADED 7 X 57R.  Ammo is rare in Canada but not impossible to find, but wait to get proper ammo before firing.

Would prior use of 7 X 57 Mauser ammo damage a combo?  Possibly, especially if fired a lot.  Whether there has been damage could only be confirmed by a good gunsmith.  About all I know what to do is check for a wiggle at the hinge.  But do it with the fore end iron off.  Hold the butt under your arm and twist the barrels.  If there is any movement seen at the breech, have it checked out, or pass.

I have a Brno 304 and actually seldom fire it.  Knowing they are versatile, but uncommon makes me think carefully.  I only check the sighting before potential use, and I don't use it for general plinking, etc.

I use Norma 175 or 160 gr bullets with starting loads of 4831.  Norma bullets are .283 and hopefully keep pressure down.

Implicit for Dougk and others in the question is can a person "get away" with using non rimmed ammo a rifle designed for rimmed ammo - in this case I provided a brief discussion of the factors to consider related to the 7X57 vs a 7X57R cartridge which is not the same for all rimmed calibers. In short unless dougk knows the specifications of the ammo shot and how much was shot he has an inherent risk in purchasing such a rifle. As it is probably a relatively expensive purchase as opposed to a used Savage for $400 why would he want to do that when there are other options out there. The range of concern in future of shooting the rifle is from a catastrophic failure to nothing. I had a customer bring in a NEF 45/70 in the he explained "sprung open on firing" and he was concerned about using the rifle further. He had been loads on the higher pressure side. Just looking at the rifle and operating it (open -close - trigger - extraction - so forth ) you could not tell it had been sprung open so damage is not always evident. On a practical level if the person who used non rimmed brass in it before used a medium pressure ammo and brass within the specs of the rifle chamber dougk could probably shoot the rifle forever using non rimmed 7X57 ammo by using a cleaning rod for extraction of the cartridge or the proper rimmed ammo but for me there would always be a question in the back of my mind.

[dougk]

Thanks for the info.

I had a gun smith who specializes in Drillings inspect the rifle and perform the appropriate tests.  The rifle barrel cam back clean.  Also, the reloaded 7x57 Mauser ammo I received with the gun was light low pressure rounds.

Again thanks

Doug

[pastorp]

Well DougK, wheres the pictures? We want to see this beauty & hear the aquision story. 

Regards,

[Drilling Man]

  Shooting higher pressure loads in a break open gun, WILL make them go "off face", so if the gun is off face, the first thing i'd look at is the ammo.  In a used gun, you have no idea what was fired in it in the past.

  DM

[dougk]

Well DougK, wheres the pictures? We want to see this beauty & hear the aquision story. 

Regards,

The gun is with a highly regarded gun smith.  When I get the gun I will gladly post pictures.

After researching drillings I was very interested in a drilling made in Suhl and specifically a J P Sauer and Sohn.  When i found a 16x16/7x57 with scope I worked a deal with the seller.  The gun was part of a estate from a gentleman that had recently passed away.

  Shooting higher pressure loads in a break open gun, WILL make them go "off face", so if the gun is off face, the first thing i'd look at is the ammo.  In a used gun, you have no idea what was fired in it in the past.

  DM

The gun was slightly off face BUT the seller reduced the price to cover the repair.