neck sizing

[original]

ok i just got my neck rcbs neck sizing die.   the info on it says it just run it down to the shell holder?  is that correct and what is the proper way to use this die?  seems like if i do that it will just size it to whatever the die is and not to the fired form size?  thanks

[wncchester]

There is no point in neck sizing below the base of a seated bullet.

[stimpylu32]

Not being a smart AXX here but , it seems to me that the guys that make the die might know how it works . 

A Neck Only sizing die will only size the neck area of the case being sized , it will have no affect on either the shoulder placement or body of the case , now a FL die that is being used to do a partial sizing , thats another story all together .

wncchester does make a good point , theres not much advantage to sizing a case neck more than what is needed to hold the bullet , however most companies build their dies to keep it as simple as possable , turn the die down till it contacts the shell holder and your good to go .

stimpy

[Grumulkin]

ok i just got my neck rcbs neck sizing die.   the info on it says it just run it down to the shell holder?  is that correct and what is the proper way to use this die?  seems like if i do that it will just size it to whatever the die is and not to the fired form size?  thanks

That's the way to do it.  It will only size the neck; the case body will stay at the fire formed size.

[wncchester]

"... most companies build their dies to keep it as simple as possable..."

Yeah.  And written the directions that way too.  Still not good enough.

[original]

thanks.  i was not sure if i ran the die all the way down to the shell holder if it would size the brass or put pressure on its bass and bell it out.  i will run it down to the holder and see what happens.    thanks again. 

[stimpylu32]

thanks.  i was not sure if i ran the die all the way down to the shell holder if it would size the brass or put pressure on its bass and bell it out.  i will run it down to the holder and see what happens.    thanks again. 

Like I said , not trying to be a smart --- , different die makers design their dies in different ways , some are made to support the case body while sizing the neck and some have a lot of air space around the case and only contact the neck area , some have the die set so you can bump back the shoulder slightly while doing the neck and others will not .

So its best to go with that the die maker lists as set-up .

stimpy

[Darrell Davis]

Origional,  ----  yep, what Stumpy says.

That is unless your cases start to really be tight in your firearm after reloading, something which may (?) happen after a few firings.

If it does, put that "neck sizing die" away, and go back to your "full length die," BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  do not follow the RCBS directions for putting the die down to the shell holder to the point of touching or the ram popping over center when fully brought to the top of the stroke.

This is a very good way to cause very short case life, been there and done that years ago.

Dies and chambers are made to manufacturing tolerences and as such are not always - maybe seldom - exactly the size seen in the cartridge drawings. So, if you end up with a large chamber and a small die, brass life goes to pot quickly.

So, always turn your full length die down just far enough to allow for easy/smooth chambering in YOUR firearm.

If it again starts to be hard to chamber a loaded round, again tweek the die down just enough to again have good chambering.

You may need to do the above a time or three, but the practice will pay off in longer brass life and load consistancy.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

[Kurt L]

RCBS neck die example.
I have a 300 win mag neck die laying right here that has not been put away to do a test and show you how it works.
Now I take my stoney point  and measure from case head to middle of shoulder =2.276
I can keep turning the die in a bit at a time to size the full neck,at this point it is still away from the  shell holder!  If i turn it in as others have stated to the shell holder it bumps the shoulder back to 2.254

This is why I measure my brass and set my dies to the point I want not just turn in to the shell holder and ram them in.

On bolt guns the brass will start to leave brass on the bolt face and go in a bit stiff so I set mine to JUST BUMP THE SHOULDER this makes them go in nice and snug but not tight enough to want to leave brass marks on the bolt face .

[Win 1917]

Wow 22 thousandths that's amazing! I wouldn't have guessed the difference would be that much.

[stimpylu32]

RCBS neck die example.
I have a 300 win mag neck die laying right here that has not been put away to do a test and show you how it works.
Now I take my stoney point  and measure from case head to middle of shoulder =2.276
I can keep turning the die in a bit at a time to size the full neck,at this point it is still away from the  shell holder!  If i turn it in as others have stated to the shell holder it bumps the shoulder back to 2.254

This is why I measure my brass and set my dies to the point I want not just turn in to the shell holder and ram them in.

On bolt guns the brass will start to leave brass on the bolt face and go in a bit stiff so I set mine to JUST BUMP THE SHOULDER this makes them go in nice and snug but not tight enough to want to leave brass marks on the bolt face .

Kurt L
 ,
If its moving the shoulder that much and is marked " Neck Sizer " you need to call RCBS as there is something VERY wrong with that die , maybe its a mis-cut or mis-marked one , but theres no way that should be happening .

stimpy

[rugerfan.64]

Ahem,,,,,not being one to read the directions (haha) this is how I do it. I just dip the case neck in some mica and start with the die adjusted a tad long,then insert said fired case into die,trial and error ,usually about 3 trips to get the correct adjustment until the neck is fully sized to the shoulder neck junction. Mind you though,case length is critical. I also have a 25-06 die that needs to make a trip to the machine shop to be turned down so I can use it on the 257 Roberts as well. I probably just opened a can of worms.

[Kurt L]

Kurt L
 ,
If its moving the shoulder that much and is marked " Neck Sizer " you need to call RCBS as there is something VERY wrong with that die , maybe its a mis-cut or mis-marked one , but theres no way that should be happening .

stimpy
[/quote]



Sorry but wrong!
I have Redding dies and they are also the same.
This was my point of the post I made..
Think about it.
All off the shelf dies are cut to be a standard size per say.
 yes you may get dies that are a bit loose or tight same as your chambers are not perfect.
every die or chamber is not 100% perfect.

Another example My 1918 30-06 Springfield this uses Redding dies.
If I FL resize with the die set to factory specs as most to bump the shell holder ,and then run in the Redding neck die set to bump the shell holder the shoulder stays the same.

Now my point is The neck die should be set to fit your chamber, why smash the shoulder back ?
On this rifle I also have to back the neck die out away from the shell holder to just bump the shoulder as I said before. To fit this chamber.
Yes if you have a 100% perfect chamber the neck die probably will work set to bump the shell holder but as YOU know they are far and few perfect chambers.
this was my point do not set it up as directions say and just go for it.
set the die up to fit your gun.

[Win 1917]

If its moving the shoulder that much and is marked " Neck Sizer " you need to call RCBS as there is something VERY wrong with that die , maybe its a mis-cut or mis-marked one , but theres no way that should be happening .

After reading the earlier post I set up a new Hornady short neck sizer that I hadn't used before. Sure enough it'll push the shoulder way back. Problem is though the body isn't supported and the part of the die that's pushing the shoulder doesn't match angles so you really shouldn't use it to bump shoulders (it bulged the body of the case a little bit when I tried to)

[Mac11700]

One other point to take into account is when the manufactures set up these dies..they are using their press and shell holder. Using a different maker will always give different results..There are shell holder sets that are varied in their heights so you can get an exact fit for what ever you need in doing this if you want to.I found this out a long time ago when loading for many calibers and having all of my shell holders of the same caliber in 1 box..I would grab a different make (had several from all of the manufactures) and start to load..wound up having to readjust my dies all the time..
A simple way of checking the amount of sizing your particular die will give is you...  is just lightly use some Hornady 1 shot on the case necks..then set the shell in the shell holder and raise the ram up all the way with the die in the press but backed all the way out so it doesn't contact the case neck. Start screwing the die down until you feel contact with the case neck. Then slowly screw the die into the press as much as you need for the bullet you are using.lowering the press arm and checking after screwing the die down. Each different bullet will be a different length and you may want it sized either to right in front of the shoulder junction or at the end of the bullet.If you are just loading one bullet this is easy..if you are loading different weights from different manufactures and want to only size what you need you will have to readjust your neck die each time..this is why most who use these dies size to the neck/shoulder junction each time..BTW...Neck sizers aren't usually good bump dies..even though a lot of folks use them for doing just that. They have bump dies specifically for doing that routine for each cartridge. For a small cost...you should use the correct tool for the job at hand when ever you can..using something for which it is not really intended  in a pinch is one thing..but if your going to the trouble of neck sizing..you might as well get a bump die in your caliber as well and use it correctly.They aren't that expensive to buy..and most on-line reloading stores have them in stock.

Mac