Pepsi/Coke Challenge

[bikerbeans]

Actually it will be the H&R Huntsman/Rossi MZ challenge.  I just removed the peep & firesight from my huntsman (both in the mail to a GBO member) and have a scope rail/spur headed my way.  Going to mount the identical fixed 4x scope on the huntsman I have on the Rossi.  Will be shooting 300 grain barnes & 255 grain noslers saboted bullets using BH209 & Winchester 209 primers.  Will also shoot some groups with 350 grain T/C maxihunters & Hornady 385 grain swaged lead.  The Rossi shoots 1" groups @ 100 yards with the Barnes, I have not shot the Huntsman for groups yet.  Just curious to see which shoots the best.  I really want the Huntsman to win because I like the fit & finish better, and it has the cool Hubbard Ramrod.

BB

[bikerbeans]

Round #1

July 6, 2010, temp 80s, light wind, high humidity, lots of sun.

All bullet & bullet/sabot combs loaded on 80 grains BH209, volumetric measure.  

First off 3 of my 4 bullet choices were bad to very bad.  They are:

255 grain Nosler, jacketed flat nose HP, .452 inside a Barnes EZ Blue sabot - 3 to 4 inch groups @ 100 yards both Rossi & H&R

385 grn. Hornday lead conical, full bore bullet, very hard to load both guns - 6 to 7 inch groups @ 100 yards both guns

350 grn T/C Maxihunters - 12 inches groups @ 100 yards, both guns

I did not photo or measure these groups because I forgot my camera and they are too bad to care about.  It is interesting that the Rossi & the Huntsman group about the same with each type bullet.

Last groups were with 300 grain Barnes Expander (hollow point, no plastic tip) inside a Harvestor Rib Crush Sabot.  Problem here due to operator error as I should have shot all my sabots before switching to lead so my first Barnes sabot round from each gun was "cleaning" load.  My second and third shot from each gun hit about 1" apart.  The first round that got to push the lead out of the bore was off to the left about 1.5 inches & up about 2" from the other two rounds.  Again both of these guns are grouping closely with the same projectile.

First glance the Huntsman appears to shot on par with the Rossi, which I have been able to shot 1" groups with fairly reliably using the barnes expanders.  The huntsman was a little handicapped because the scope on it has crosshairs that are at least twice as wide as the scope on the Rossi.  

I am going to continue the experiment with the barnes bullets and also some offerings from Harvestor.  Will play with powder charges also to see what works the best in each gun.

One note is the "o" ring in the carrierless breech plug on the H&R works extremely well.  The spent 209s from the rossi are screaming hot and must be removed with caution or pliers. I am going to try and fit an "o" ring to the Rossi.

I am fairly sure that at the end of this the Rossi will be headed to my kids gun room and I will be upgrading the scope on the Huntsman.  I like the fit and feel of the H&R smokestick and when the wood is refinished in a dark cherry stain I will be very happy.

BB

[Busta]

BB,

Thanks for the report. If you want a great shooting conical, get a pack of the Hornady FPB's. You can pick them up a little more reasonable when Wally World has them on clearance at the end of the season. They shoot outstanding in my Huntsman. If you want a good all lead full bore conical, get something in the 415 gr to 460 gr range. The 440's are just about perfect in the 1:28 twist. Sized at .503", they are just about perfect.

Here is some of my favorites.



Put a vegetable fiber gasket wad or similar card type wad between the powder and bullet for best results.




As far as saboted bullets, the 265 gr to 300 gr bullets do tend to shine more than the lighter weights. I have 13 muzzleloaders, my Huntsman is the least picky rifle I own, and REALLY shoots everything well. Some better than others, of course. The worst shooting bullets would be PowerBelts, Hornady Great Plains, Buffalo Bullet, and conicals under 400 grains.

The 460 gr Bullshop and No Excuses bullets sized at .503" will also shoot very well.

[bikerbeans]

Busta,

Thanks for the info.  I have been using the Barnes 300 grain Sabots in the 50 Cal. because they would shoot about 1" at 100 yards.  I would prefer a heavy lead bullet but I have never found one that would shot well.  I will see if I can find something in the mid 400 grain range.  The MZ load data for BH209 is pretty sparse for the non-sabots, would you think 80 grain is a good starter load or maybe drop it down a bit?

BB

[Busta]

BB,

I would start at 70 grains and work up in 5 grain increments. I have found that 80 grains is just about perfect for most of those bullets.

Bullshop has the best prices you will probably find anywhere, and he can ship up to 40 pounds of bullets for $13.50. The only problem is he doesn't take orders from April to October each year. His bullets are worth waiting for, but need to be ordered in the fall and winter. Dan can size from around .499" to .5045", but .503" is what works for me in the Huntsman.

http://bullshop.gunloads.com/

The 460 gr No Excuses are another great shooting option, but I always order at least 2 boxes as the shipping for the second box is not much more than one. These are sized at .503", and that is perfect for the Huntsman. Slight engraving, and the bullet stays seated on the charge. Dave will take your order and ship with invoice, you send your check after you get your bullets. Not too many people that do business like that anymore.

http://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/

[bikerbeans]

Thanks Busta, I have some 460 No Excuses headed by way.

[bikerbeans]

Busta,

I tried the 460 grn, 50 cal No Excuse lead slugs today, in both my huntsman and my Rossi.  Both shot about 1.5" group @ 100 yards, with 70 grain of BH209 and a wonderwad over the powder.  Both guns where hitting about 4" right of the bullseye.  Both guns are sighted deadnutz @ 100 yards with the Barnes Expander sabots.  Will continue the load development because I would prefer to shoot a heavier lead slug than a lighter sabot. 

I also shot some of the No Excuse 45 cal, 385 grain slugs inside of Harvester Rib Crush sabots.  THe Huntsman shot a less than 2" group @ 100yards, again about 4" to the right of the bullseye.  The Rossi sprayed the 45 cal. sabots.  The bore on the Rossi is a lot looser than the Huntsman and these easy load sabots probably didn't seal well with the lead bullets.

The Huntsman won my competition and the Rossi is going to my kid (I am biased, the Huntsman would have had to have blown up before I would have declared the Rossi the winner. )  I am going to put a 3x9x40 New Redfield on the Huntsman and hopefully have a nice load developed by deer season.

Thanks for your help Busta.

BB

[Busta]

BB,

You're welcome! Glad they worked out for you. This October you should give Dan at Bullshop a call, the 440 grain bullets seem to shoot the best. He has one called the UC Short that Underclocked designed, this may shoot well in your rifle too. Dan has lots of good bullets, and like I said, I think he can size his .50 cals from .499" all the way to .5045".

That Redfield by Leupold should be a very nice scope, I have been hearing good reports.