When I got my 44mag handi I had some brass (someone gave me) I had some powder primers but, hadn't bought any bullets yet. Well hunting with smoke poles for so many years I started diggin through my sabots and I bought some TC cheap shots (lead 240 gr hps) toss the sabot and used them to try it out and they shoot good almost same POI as the xtps. I'd use them to check my sights with before deer season. They do a very good job on deer, I mostly use the 240gr xtps though cause they hit hard and do there job. One shot one kill on all the deer I have shot with them, in both the muzzle loader (.50cal) and the Handi 44mag. The 158gr xtp in my 45cal (.357 sabot) smoke pole, and 158gr xtps in my .357mag pistol. they just work.