Author Topic: Cull bucks from 11-22-03 (Read 757 times)

grouper sandwich · « **on:** November 24, 2003, 06:24:37 AM »

We took these two cull bucks from our lease in Stewart county, Georgia on Saturday. Both deer had swollen necks and darkend tarsal glands. The first one was a big spike (160-170 lbs., 3.5-4.5 y.o.) and was taken by our club president at 170 yards with a 300 Remington Ultra Mag. He was running a doe. I'm in the picture only to show the rack. I took the second, a four point, that went about 120 lbs. and is a 2.5 year old deer with no brow tines and forks that went straight up. He had bark in his antlers from where he had just been rubbing sapplings. He succombed to a 25 yard double lung shot with a 25-06.

We did see two gorgeous 6 pointers with perfectly formed antlers (~1.5 year old deer) that got passes. Of course Bubba (big 9-pointer) and Coatrack Head (Big 10-pointer) remained out of sight all weekend. They now have two less deer to compete with for does! Hopefully they'll score! We saw 10 deer on Saturday, 6 bucks and 4 does. I think that we may be doing things right up there. We'll be back to whacking does in December once the rut is over.

Myk · « **Reply #1 on:** November 24, 2003, 07:13:04 AM »

Those are screwed up. Be thankful that you can do that to get them out of the gene pool and your govt hasn't listened to anyone calling for minimum points.

A few years ago I culled a no brow tine during shotgun. I didn't get him early enough, this year I got another. But this time I got him very early bow season. At least this one didn't have time to breed.

The good 8pt I just got had plenty of breeding time, so much the hair was worn down on the inside of his legs.

longwinters · « **Reply #2 on:** November 27, 2003, 03:47:39 AM »

Nice pics. I never worried about culling deer. If I see em, and decide that deer is good enough for me, I shoot em and eat em. I never really saw a buck I did not like. Not that I shoot everyone I see or dont wait for the big one on occaision, but I just like em all. :-)

long

huntsman · « **Reply #3 on:** November 29, 2003, 04:33:41 PM »

I commend you and your hunting club for taking a positive step forward in your decision to cull inferior-antlered bucks from your herd. If this could become a common trend everywhere, general antler quality would probably improve.

I would caution you in expecting too much from such measures. Careful study of the most recent research on selective deer harvest methods suggests that improving antler quality is not nearly so simple as just removing "cull" bucks from the breeding pool. There are many other factors that make this only a marginally successful tool, at best. There are also some preliminary results from ongoing deer studies that suggest that poor antler quality in young deer is not necessarily carried through to adult antler quality, thus seeming to contradict the conventional wisdom of "once inferior antlers, always inferior antlers". The final results of these studies are still pending, but the results so far are intriguing.

I am not questioning your age figures, but I am wondering whether you used teeth examination as an aging method on these deer, and what specific teeth characteristics you used. There are some not-so-scientific methods floating around out there, and body size is certainly not a sound indicator of deer age. From the physical characteristics evident in the photos, I think it is possible these deer may have both been younger than your age figures indicate. Once again, I am not questioning your age figures, but rather trying to find out exactly how you got them.

Again, I think what your hunt club is doing is a great leap forward in understanding and in trying to positively influence the quality of the deer herd in general. I applaud your obviously thoughtful and patient approach. Good luck with the two trophies that still elude you - you guys deserve them all the more since you have already sacrificed in order to enjoy the fruits of your labors. :grin:

pa ridge-runner · « **Reply #4 on:** November 30, 2003, 07:44:12 AM »

:-D Congratulations on the bucks!!
They are good for the frying pan,but any buck is a trophy.I will have to agree with Huntsman on the deer age calculations.I always believed deer age can only be measured by wear on a certain tooth.Which one I'm not sure :? .Here in Pa if we want to find out what a deers age is we can send the tooth to the game commission and they will write back the age.Body weight is not a" for sure "way to tell.
We have had antler restrictions in Pa now for 2 years.We cannot take any bucks that have less than 3 points on one side.Anything less than a 3 inch point on both sides is considered antlerless.It was a belief here in Pa also that a spike buck will always be a spike(not true).As far as body weight,that all depends on age...yes and food availabilty and food nutrition and quality.
For many many years our laws allowed us to take any buck with 3 inch spikes or bigger.90% of the bucks taken were 1 and one/half years old.Now with these antler restrictions in place we are promised bigger and more healthy deer :roll: :wink: .Hope so.!
To top this new law off was a major increase in doe tags.Last year Pa took over 350,000 antlerless deer.We boasted a deer herd of 2 million 3 years ago.Now we are down to 1.3 million and the game commission wants another 350 thousand doe to go this year!! :eek: :eek: .
I dont question your culling precedures ,its your land,but it seems to me that the "new approach" on big buck management is buck-doe ratio.There are poor gene deer also,but a buck needs to get over 2 and1/2 before he will get larger headgear.Before that age most of the nourishment goes into bone and body development. :-) If you have another way you can calculate deer age I'd like to know.Good luck on your hunt!

grouper sandwich · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2003, 03:56:31 PM »

I'm complete agreement on the does. In fact, these are two of only four bucks taken by our club in two years. There have been 7 does taken this year and we took around 15-20 does last year. As for age estimates? We estimated by body size (we have small deer down here). Probably not scientific, but these two fellows didn't seem to have the same "tools" as some of the other bucks that we've seen on the property. We REALLY stress trophy management among our four members and try to take does and let the bucks walk as much as possible. I have no idea what the ratio is on our lease, but I'd venture to say that it's one of the best in the area. But we had been seing these guys run does and made the decision to remove them from the herd if we had the chance.