Author Topic: 45-70 question. (Read 987 times)

Spanky · « **on:** July 21, 2010, 09:20:20 AM »

If you ream a 45-70 Handi to 45-120 can you still shoot the 45-70 ammo in it?
I'm asking if it's similar to shooting 38's in a 357max.

Spanky

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2010, 09:26:03 AM »

Wouldn't accuracy suck with that big a freebore?

bikerbeans · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2010, 09:29:51 AM »

Spanky,

I have read in a couple threads here that you shouldn't shoot a 45/70 in a 45/120. There is 1.145" difference in max. case lengths so you got a good bullet jump going. I am curious about this because I have a 45/120 but I haven't been curious enough to try the short cartridge in the long chamber.

Folks shoot 38 spec in 357 Max all the time and there is a good bullet jump with that combo, but the 357 max has a very long throat/cone to it. Maybe the transition to the rifling in the 45/120 is too abrupt?

BB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2010, 09:50:53 AM »

I asked Wayne about that after I had mine done, there's no problem other than making sure you clean the chamber good after shooting the short 45-70 round in it so you don't have any fouling that may increase pressures or making it hard to chamber 45-120 rounds afterwords. As BB said, it's no different that shooting shorter rounds in other straight walled chamberings like 357Max and 44mag.

Tim

Spanky · « **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2010, 09:56:51 AM »

Thanks for the info guys... I appreciate it.

Spanky

bikerbeans · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2010, 02:18:30 PM »

Thanks for the info. Tim

Spanky, I have a bunch of 45/70 lead trapdoor level loads. I was planning to shoot the 45/120 this Friday, so I will launch a couple of 45/70s just to see how it goes. "hey ya'll, watch this!"

BB

gcrank1 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2010, 02:44:29 PM »

Hey BB, I wait with baited breath (whatever that means!!!) for a detailed, comprehensive report on your trials!

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2010, 02:59:45 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on July 21, 2010, 09:50:53 AM

I asked Wayne about that after I had mine done, there's no problem other than making sure you clean the chamber good after shooting the short 45-70 round in it so you don't have any fouling that may increase pressures or making it hard to chamber 45-120 rounds afterwords. As BB said, it's no different that shooting shorter rounds in other straight walled chamberings like 357Max and 44mag.

Tim

Thanks Tim that's what I figured.

PawPaw · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2010, 03:04:53 PM »

Well, there shouldn't be any headspace problems with that. We could just call it a 45-120 Special.

briannmilewis · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2010, 03:44:15 PM »

I think you may be pushing it, I have no evidence to back it up, it's not a good feeling about the numbers.

38sp in 357 Max and 44sp in 445 Super Mag is just -0.45.

If you were to use the same differences in 45-70 you would have a 45-70sp at 1.655. I would feel OK with this.

Using a 444 Marlin, you would have a 444sp at 1.775. I would feel OK with this too.

1.145" just seems way too big a jump to me.

Be interested to see what happens. Remember to take a long string and a tree to hide behind.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2010, 04:04:37 PM »

Brian, I never said it would shoot accurately, just that it's safe to do so, I've never shot it in mine cuz I have several 45-70s to shoot it in, but in a pinch you could shoot it without a problem other than cleaning afterwards, I'd would imagine it would shave lead or copper at the beginning of the rifling unless there's a nice tapered leade into the rifling which would help straighten the bullet out a bit. You can see the same jump in the 45/410 barrel when shooting 45Colt ammo, and they're factory available.

Tim

tacklebury · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2010, 04:48:16 PM »

Yes it's no different and probably slightly better than shooting the .45 Colt in the Survivor barrel. I believe that chamber is 3" and the COL of my Colt rounds is less than 1.6" to the tip. I think there will be some accuracy issues and would definitely use a lead scraper afterwards to clean the transition in the barrel.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2010, 05:27:44 PM »

Going to try this with 2.85" OAL 45/70 rounds using 535 grain postels with only 25 grains of H4198. Get as close to the rifling as I can. The reamer I rechambered this gun with had a fairly long lead so I am not too worried about it. I just will not shoot any 45/120s in the gun until after I clean it real good. I am more concerned with the bullet making the 100 yards to the target. The gun is sighted in with gas checked lead flying @ 2,000 FPS so I may get a hop, skip & a jump before the postel makes it to the backstop.

BB

Spanky · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2010, 06:14:56 PM »

It might hop, skip and jump to the target but that 535gr. will definitely leave a mark when it gets there.

I bet a big chunk of lead like that would go end to end on a whitetail without too much trouble.

Spanky

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2010, 06:21:12 PM »

The 550 gr JB Young Craters I've got plowed through a sandwich of 4 treated 2"X12"s at 75 yards. I was trying to get one stopped in the 2"x12" to check expansion. NO JOY.....

bikerbeans · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2010, 11:16:14 AM »

I took a couple of measurements and I will have almost 6/10 of an inch jump once the 535 grain postel leaves the 45/70 brass before engaging the rifling on my 45-120. I clean the lead out of my 1911 with a low velocity jacketed bullet, but I ain't trying that with my 45-120. Guess I better invest in some bore solvent.

I will be at the range first thing Friday morning so will have Spanky an answer shortly.

BB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** July 22, 2010, 11:55:41 AM »

Wipeout removes lead fouling without any work, just leave it in for 24-36hrs and the lead will push out with a patch, done it with heavily fouled muzzleloader after trying several solvents that "said" they remove lead, Shooter's Choice was one of em.....but hardly touched it.

Tim

bikerbeans · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2010, 10:26:09 AM »

I still have all my eyes and fingers after shootin (3) rounds of 45/70 out of a 45/120. I decided to shoot the 535 grain postels with 43 grain of H4895 vice the light loads I had. Here's what I noted:

1. Normal recoil for this load.

2. No noticeable leading in the bore after 3 shots of 45/70. Was able to chamber a 45/120 round and fire it w/o issue or affect on the accuracy.

3. I fired the (3) 45/70 rounds at a 2' by 3' piece of plywood @ 100 yards distance. I only hit the plywood once and it was a perfect keyhole! These rounds will shoot a 2 to 3 inch group in my shorty 45/70 so I guess it is safe to say the .6 inch jump to the rifling doesn't help the accuracy.

Conclusion, it appears safe to shoot a pointy lead 45/70 round in a 45/120 rifle but you need to be hunting very close or something very large if you are going to have a successful harvest.

BB

Chas. · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2010, 11:13:43 AM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on July 23, 2010, 10:26:09 AM

I only hit the plywood once and it was a perfect keyhole!

Maybe I don't understand the terminology, but isn't keyholeing when the bullet is tumbling rather than spiraling? Is that what it did?

Swampman · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2010, 12:10:52 PM »

I can see no reason for the .45-70 rounds not to shoot perfectly out of the .45-120. I'd try jacketed bullets.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2010, 12:49:28 PM »

It was a keyhole which means it did not stablize. These exact same bullets loaded in a 45/120 case and shot from this gun stablize and shoot just fine. I am guessing the bullet was moving to fast to properly engage the rifling or some other failure of the bullet occured. The entire test was to answer whether or not you could shoot a 45/70 cartridge in a 45/120 rifle and live to tell about. For my rifle and this particular round the answer is "yes". To me it just further proves the cartridge you load should be the same caliber as the rifle you are shooting.

BB

Swampman · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2010, 12:51:23 PM »

The .45-70 and the .45-120 are the same caliber.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2010, 01:02:56 PM »

I'd be more inclined to think bullet yaw as it enters the rifling crooked is the cause , normally bullet runout is considered to be within sporting tolerance at .002"-.003", any more than that will affect accuracy. When you consider the bullet making a jump completely unsupported before it enters the rifling, it could be very off center and accuracy down range goes out the door.

Tim

bikerbeans · « **Reply #23 on:** July 23, 2010, 01:11:52 PM »

Thanks Tim.