Author Topic: NRA members (Read 2090 times)

S.B. · « **on:** January 17, 2003, 05:52:11 AM »

While looking through the many posts on this forum, all of the forums here. I see but a few personal notes saying "NRA member". With a national census of, how many billion?, why do we have fewer than 6 million members in the only national organazation that trys to stand up for OUR rights, meaning all of our gun rights, member and non-members? This is something that's not only here but in the community that I live in. Many people claim to be true gun enthusiasts, yet refuse to join in the fight to help preserve this right! And please save the excuses I've heard all the reasons for not being a member. I would like to think that the ones not listed as members here have just forgotten to put their membership on their signature. For the ones who don't belong, shame on you for helping the anti- gunners "United we stand, devided we fall".

Hud · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2003, 06:10:26 AM »

I think, (I hope) that most of the guys on here are members of the NRA.
I have been a life member for over 20 years and a regular member long before that. My Dad and one son are life members also. My Mom, my wife, my brother, and his wife are also members. My buddies are members or they get bugged about it by me. I suppose I should put a "tag" on my quote line. I'll do that.

I know some guys get upset with all the mail they get asking for money.

I tell them the NRA does that because it works for them. Soliciting brings in much more than it costs to send out that stuff. And the NRA needs more money than our dues provide. If people don't want to send any more money in, then just throw the letters in the waste basket and don't worry about it.

Hud
"I AM THE NRA"............Life Member

S.B. · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2003, 06:17:43 AM »

If you don't want the junk mail, just call the 800 # and tell them to stop it. If all the people that claim to be gunners would join the NRA they would have plenty of money to stop the anti's cold with just the dues money. Too few carrying too many!

southern utah · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2003, 06:49:04 AM »

There might be a big flood to join when they come knocking at your door for your guns. By then it will to late. If you are afraid to join and be on a list somewhere send in a donation. If NRA wasn't working then why is the media bashing them all the time.

Gatofeo · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2003, 06:55:50 AM »

Current population of the U.S. is about 265 million.
We have six million NRA members.
That's roughly 1 in 43 Americans that's a member of the NRA.
Not bad, overall, but could be a whole lot better considering the number of gun owners out there.
I would guess that there are about 60 million gun owners in America, that's counting the person who has Grandad's old .22 or .30-30 in the closet, unfired for years.
Now, that's 1 in 6 Americans having some type of firearm in their home. That's probably a low guess too, since most families out West have at least a .22 in the closet, or a hand-me-down protection pistol or war souvenir. But I'm adjusting my guess for the East Coast, where firearm ownership is not as prevalent.
The NRA isn't attractive to many people because of (1) Anti-NRA propaganda by the media and Hollywood and (2) It refuses to take a "moderate" stance on the Second Amendment.
My response to friends who refuse to join the NRA, or hate it outright, is, "How much compromise would you accept on the First Amendment? Why are you so eager to give away the 2nd Amendment?"
And when they cite the tired, old argument of "The Second Amendment was written when flintlocks were the norm," I reply with, "And the First Amendment was written before radio, internet, television, telephones, high-speed printing and satellite communication."
They think the analogy is ridiculous, of course, and tell me that the media doesn't kill thousands of people every day.
Oh? It doesn't? William Randolph Hearst pushed us into a war with Spain in 1898, through his newspapers.
The slanted anti-war coverage of the 1960s gave comfort to the enemy, and convinced him he could win while at the same time limiting our strategy, thus prolonging the VietNam War.
Even today, the selfishness of the anti-war movement (not with MY son or daughter, you don't!) will likely ensure that Saddam Hussein and North Korea not only possess, but use, nuclear weapons.
The media is giving great coverage to the anti-war movement against a war in Iraq, painting these disillusioned, selfish, naive, unrealistic lunatics as people of peace and conscience.
History has shown that Peace at any cost results in War at great cost.
I'm a Life Member of the NRA and a former journalist (12 years on newspapering).
You're right, we need more NRA members but it will take a lot of convincing to get the middle-of-the-roaders.

Loader 3009 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2003, 06:58:10 AM »

You people must be speaking of the "OLD" NRA. I'm afraid the NEW and present NRA is like Jim and Tammy Faye's PTL Club. It is a business and ranks right up (or down) there with NASCAR and WCW Wrestling.

Here in North Carolina we have an organization called GRNC (Grass Roots North Carolina) that has done more for the people's gun rights than NRA has done since LaPierre took over. But if the NRA is the only organization you have in your area, go for it.....anything is better than nothing.

Loader 3009

S.B. · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2003, 07:14:46 AM »

I notice that neither of the last two replys didn't mention a membership in the NRA. Too bad we need more people not excusses. I swear, sometimes I think Sara Brady is on the forums with us, guess I'll never know for sure. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the anti's have paided people to be here with us and spread disconcent. All I can say is put your money where your mouth is, Join. In my opinion, your're either a member or your just blowing smoke.

rickyp · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2003, 07:52:01 AM »

I am sorry to say I am no longer a member because I have seen what my dues have done for the people of MD. NOTHING!

while the NRA is asking for money and playing around Washington DC states like Maryland and California are passing laws that restrict gun ownership and the NRA is doing nothing to stop this.
What good is them fighting in Washington while the states are just passing laws on a state level that end our rights to buy guns.

The NRA ran a few TV ads during the elections but not the rest of the time, they are doing nothing to get out the truth to nongun owners. If they can run ads during the elections then they can and SHOULD run them trough out the year!

If the NRA wants the suport of gun owners the nra need to start doing what they say and fight for our rights even on a state leveal

S.B. · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2003, 08:01:40 AM »

As long as we choose to devide ourselves, the anti's will win. I have never seen any of the wealthy sponsors of the anti's pull their support. I'm sorry yu have chosen to back out of what you say you believe in, but real gun people won't let our support go for nothing. Until we win or you get your way, we'll have to carry your load along with ours. Keep deviding, it makes it easier to spot when they want your guns. Hope this get you what you want, i.e. a better job, points with your anti gun boss, a respected place in your local community. Ever consider working for HCI? Never did anything for You, how about the guns you now own? I'll personally put you on the "pay you no attention" list.

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2003, 08:42:40 AM »

Quote from: Loader 3009

You people must be speaking of the "OLD" NRA. I'm afraid the NEW and present NRA is like Jim and Tammy Faye's PTL Club. It is a business and ranks right up (or down) there with NASCAR and WCW Wrestling.

Loader 3009

Boy did you head that one right on the head.

YES for those who just MUST KNOW I have been a life member longer than most who post here have been on earth. NO I'm NOT proud of that at this point in time.

Wayne LaPierre and his lacky Heston have ruined the NRA. It is no friend of gun owners and those who think it is need to wake up and see what's REALLY happening.

LaPierre agree to accept ON YOUR BEHALF as your respresentative (NOT MINE) every single antigun bill that has been passed since he took office. He and Klinton were best buddies in my opinion. They knew that by knocking each other publicly both could gain with their respective supporters but when it came right down to decision time LaPierre let it be known he wouldn't oppose the bills and no effort would be made by the NRA to remind voters come election time of who voted for them. And they didn't remind folks either.

They just take the money that should be going to folks who REALLY SUPPORT THE US CONSTITUTION which they don't. They refuse to listen to the voices of members and have one and only one thing in mind now and that is to take in money so the pockets of the leaders who head it up can become richer.

Nope you talk them up all you want while they help you lose what Constitutional rights you have left.

Me I'll keep trying to warn folks not open minded enough to listen that you are feeding the enemy and don't even realize it.

GB

Loader 3009 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2003, 10:17:49 AM »

High Fives, GB.

The Master has spoken. Any questions, little Grasshoppers?

Loader (Former NRA Member) 3009

S.B. · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2003, 10:54:12 AM »

G.B. I've been a lifer since 1973. I too, don't agree with the way the powers that be are doing. But, I do vote in the NRA elections and not for the current powers. I'm all for changing the way things are done in the Washington office, and changing the people that have down graded a great organazation.
What office would you like to run for, next election? As for former member Loader 3009, I am still a member. Don't see any progress in quiting what I believe in or changing sides. Seems like I can remeber a quote, "These are the times that try mens souls, The sunshine patriot and the summer soldier, will surely shrink from the service of their country, in these times".

Hud · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2003, 11:26:45 AM »

Yea, this little grasshopper has got a question. Or rather a statement.
Loader 3009, your gloating kinda makes your view seem a little hollow.

So anyway Graybeard, I do put a lot of stock in what you think. I don't say that lightly. Would you elaborate on your views a little bit more? I am certainly not apposed to changing my mind when shown the light. (I have quit the Republican party and joined the Constitutional Party.)

Hear is my thoughts;
I haven't agreed with everything the NRA has done, or any other gun organization for that matter. And if I only backed organizations that I completely agreed with, I wouldn't be backing any. I think that, for the most part, the NRA has fought back rather well and have put some good pro gunners in office. I think we would be a whole lot worse off with out the NRA. I can look about 150 miles north of me to see that.

I can't think of any new gun laws that the NRA has backed up. There have been laws like the Brady bill that passed but the NRA certainly fought against it.

Also Friends of the NRA has done a lot to gather money to give to the local gun clubs around here in the state of Minnesota. The NRA also did a lot to get our new Gov. in office and now for the first time we have a chance to get a new concealed carry law passed here in the state.

The Old NRA I remember back in the 60's when I was a kid was just a small group of "holyer than thou types" that didn't even have the guts to back any cantidates. To me, they just seemed to be a bunch of "good ole boys" back then. When Harlin B Carter came along they seemed to have aquired a little courage.

Hud
"I AM THE NRA"..........lifemember

Loader 3009 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2003, 11:43:32 AM »

Well, S.B., I first joined the NRA back in 1957. It was a good organization then. I, like you, have watched it disintegrate under bad leadership. I tried to vote them out but they used my dues to further entrench themselves. So, I cut off their money......the same way I have cut off money to S&W and Ruger. You see, S.B., I have something called ethics and these ethics sometimes won't let me sleep at night. A personality flaw?...maybe.....or maybe not. I am not going to, as GB says "feed the enemy". And COMPROMIZE is not in my vocabulary....hell, I can't even spell it.

These organization and business heads are like politicians and when they see the winds a changin' they will likewise change or be changed. This is why I withold my support. There will an NRA as long as there is a USA. I just wish you would join with us in applying pressure to bring this change about.

Call your next case.

Loader 3009

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2003, 12:56:14 PM »

Hud, it all started shortly after LaPierre was given free rein to run the NRA.

That position he holds is the single most powerful in the organization. He determines basically on his own just about every financial and business decision the NRA makes. He is answerable ONLY to the Board of Directors who hired him and can "almost" fire him. I say almost because the President can over ride the decision of the Board to fire him. How do I know that? Well it has already happened ONCE that's how.

Once about 5-6 years ago, maybe a few more, Marion Hammer was the President. She got there on the clout of LaPierre and was therefore somewhat beholden to him. Add to that the fact that LaPierre donated $100,000 of OUR money to a club in FL each year she was President. Each year that club gave her the exact same sum of money for no reason apparent on the surface. In effect she was being paid a salary of $100,000 per year to be President of the NRA. The By-Laws say the President CANNOT accept a single red cent for serving as President.

So we had a good slate of Directors in those days. They saw what was going on. They didn't like it. They voted to fire LaPierre and Hammer vetoed their action. LaPierre is still with us. He signed a deal with Tony somethng or other, never can remember his last name, but the guy who used to be on Saturday morning on a show called Under Wild Skies I think it was. Tony's company did the soliciting for money for the NRA. I think but am not sure he still does. This contrat was given to LaPierre's friend without a competitive bid. They were paid to "attempt" to get money NOT based on results. Ever wonder why you get 20 letters and another 15 phone calls a year for money? Because every letter and every phone call is a profit to Tony whether the NRA gets moeny or not they pay. I'd like to think this has now ended but haven't gotten any word on it lately. My information souce is Neal Knox. Check his website. He is the man who led the Cincinatti reform that turned the NRA around once and got us folks that were interested in running the NRA right and got the NRA involved in politics rather than just teaching folks to shoot and hunter safety.

Now after the firing of LaPierre by the Board and the over turn of that by Hammer some more shenanigans began. LaPierre and cronies placed a full page ad in all the NRA magazines naming every single board member up for reelection that voted to can Lapierre. This was done at NRA expense not from their private funds and in their official capacities as officers of the NRA. This was strictly in violation of the By Laws. It was challenged but the damage was done. Because of that single act most of those folks were defeated. I continued and continues to this day. Each election that group puts a big ad in telling you who to vote for and who NOT to vote for. Well most of the sheep who are voting members and won't think for themselves and won't dig and investigate WHY they are doing that just do as told and vote the party slate.

So now the NRA is completely controlled by LaPierre. He has his hand picked lacky as President and his hand picked Board of Directors who will not challenge one single thing he does.

Now on the subject of what the NRA supports and doesn't. They supported the Brady Bill. Not publicly of course. Not so members would know it. Nope. Was behind closed doors in the offices of Congressmen and Senators whom they said well yeah we can live with that and will not fight it or try to get you defeated in the next election if you do that.

Do I have hard evidence of this? Nope sorry. I got my info from other NRA insiders who are for the most part now outsiders because they didn't go along with this crap. Neal Knox is the most vocal of them and has a web site under his name. I lists several others who are also good sources of info.

All I'm saying is don't assume everything the NRA tells you is true. Don't assume all they do is in your best interest. Investigate. Dig deep and learn the truth. It will shock you and piss you off big time. It did me.

GB

S.B. · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2003, 02:18:30 PM »

Well G.B. why don't you start a forum to inform and educate the membership of the NRA? You do control this site, don't you? No flame intended. Seriously, what stops you? I can't think of a better place to start. Get the gavel and the pulpit out and get things going. Or would you really rather have things the way they are? You the man. But, as for loader 3009, he can't even vote! He left the rest of the thinking American sportsmen and sportswomen to handle a job, undone, without even making a ripple in the stream of corruption.

rickyp · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2003, 03:38:00 PM »

Quote

Hope this get you what you want, i.e. a better job, points with your anti gun boss, a respected place in your local community. Ever consider working for HCI? Never did anything for You, how about the guns you now own? I'll personally put you on the "pay you no attention" list.

I may not give money to the Not for gun owners Rights Anymore
But I do what I can. I am always on the phone calling Maryland's reps. and writhing letters to them. I even do the same to the govoner of Maryland. I always sent the letter or conversation with "I am an American gun owner and I vote" If every gun owner did the same as I do we would get the point out.

Send money to them if you want but by all means make phone calls and send letters

L-Roy · « **Reply #17 on:** January 17, 2003, 07:09:52 PM »

GB,
Millions of members probably are not all wrong! Remember, the strength is in numbers. Remember, divided, we FALL!

Are we to believe statements, unsupported by hard evidence? Three of your paragraphs were so written. Also, to make derogatory claims, without evidence, sometimes may result in slander; be careful!

As to voting members being sheep; not so, for I am a very capable thinker and digger!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** January 18, 2003, 12:24:10 AM »

Life member for over 20 years

Loader 3009 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 18, 2003, 01:39:23 AM »

I once asked a local alcoholic why he didn't quit drinking. He said that after a lifetime of drunkeness that he had too much invested to quit. Not much of an argument... but an argument, still.

Loader 3009

S.B. · « **Reply #20 on:** January 18, 2003, 05:31:16 AM »

So, what's your argument, Loader 3009? I looked up as many of your posts as possible. You seem to make statements and then change your mind in the middle of the discussion. What organazations do you really belong to??? HCI?
None of your statements here seem to be to help cure what problems you are saying we have in this argument. So, what's your point or agenda?

S.B. · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2003, 08:47:46 AM »

OK, G.B., I got the 2003 ballot in the American Rifleman today. Let's hear your recommendations? Please let's see some discussion on this! Enough of pro or con, let's begin fixing things. Let's have an open discussion, and please let's keep it to people who are involved and members. 29 names and 26 to pick. How about Jeff Cooper?

Hud · « **Reply #22 on:** January 18, 2003, 02:38:20 PM »

GB,
Thanks for replying to my post.

I did not know about the Marion Hammer/money deal but I am going to do some research into it. I did look into the Brady acusations at the time and came to the conclusion that it was only acusastons, that there was really no basis in fact. It is possible they were in collusion, but just as possible that it was totaly false.

I do know from myself being on different ag association and co-op boards that there is always someone who talks against and second guesses what you do, no matter how careful you try to be fair to everyone. After watching Neal Knox over a period of years, he strikes me as this kind of person.

I agree with many of Neals views, I used to follow him pretty close, but his methods of completely cutting down anyone who disagrees with himself has made me kind of ignore him the last few years. Some of his accusations too me seemed like he was trying to distort the truth just enough to make the other guy look bad. Not a complete lie, but not the truth either.

I had heard the about the soliciting thing. I did not come up with answers for myself one way or the other, as I kind of gave up on it , thinking that this was Neal blowing smoke again. Possibly I quit to soon to really satisfy my own judgement.

Anyway GB, you have started a fire under my tail again, so I will be doing some calling of boardmembers and those running before this next election.
And I will get back on Neals website to see what he has to say.

Thanks again,
HUD

volshooter · « **Reply #23 on:** January 19, 2003, 08:34:48 AM »

Good thread going. I understand both sides. I am an NRA member because although they don't take a strong stance as GOA or some of the many other groups do, BUT because they do have the most influence in DC. Good arguments from both sides. I did drop out when Wayne L. came to power because of the money money money mantra that came to be. I rejoined for annual membership the following year after deciding that I was only hurting the cause. If I have any complaints about the NRA it would be the $. Some of you are probaly NRA recruiters and you know, but most are not. Let's just say that recruiters don't do it out of the goodness of their heart. There is a very good incentive program for recruiters and so I think that incentive should not be charged to renewing members that blindly send in their dues. Sure wish all of our groups could get together on something, if that happened HCI would overshadowed like a piss ant under an elephant.
Rick
member of several pro rights groups

S.B. · « **Reply #24 on:** January 19, 2003, 10:26:09 AM »

To be perfectly clear, I am not a recruiter for the NRA or am I associated with anyone who is. The views I posted here are my own. I have never held any office with the NRA. As I stated earlier, I don't agree with all that goes on in the main office my self. My only answer is to be informed and vote. Of course, in the last presidential elelction I think it was just over 50% that voted. If people won't even vote in a national election, I dought they are going to vote in an election of their clubs and organazations. Still, there is plenty of griping to go around for everyone. In my opinion, America has become complacent(sp). Guess there's too much good TV to take care of business, and God knows, that's not the truth.

Dand · « **Reply #25 on:** January 19, 2003, 11:22:25 AM »

Interesting thread. I've added my membership note.

I too have been very confused by the Knox vs NRA squabble. In '97 I had occasion to be on a 7 day float trip with a guy who had worked fairly high up in NRA and who had been a high level advisor for Alaska's Sen. Stevens. I asked this guy what his take was. His reply suggested a view very similar to what HUD described a few posts up. I too have served on some boards where there is a small vocal and impossible to please minority - it can be hugely frustrating.

So I continue to support NRA though I dislike getting solicitations for membership when I've been a lifer for 20+ years - they're wasting money calling me. If I have other objections I try to let them know. On eof my main complaints is the often very low - stupid - level of discussion in some of the money solicitations. I refuse to respond to those. They make NRA members look like idiots.

At the same time, since an open debate can be healthy for any organization, I occasionally support Mr. Knox and regulary read his material.

From this thread, I'm beginning to think some rotation in leadership would be a good thing. In most organizations some institutionalized means of refreshing the leadership. I'll read my ballot and candidate list carefully.

FlattopLover · « **Reply #26 on:** January 19, 2003, 03:34:10 PM »

Boy, I hate for my first post to be like this. But I have to say what I have to say. First, I am a LIFETIME MEMBER OF THE NRA.

2nd, I guess I wouldn't be assuming to much in thinking that those who have dropped out of the NRA to all be divorcee's and be able to quit friendships pretty easily also?

I do not always agree with my wife. Sometimes we have strong disagreements. But that doesn't mean I am going to divorce her because of that. When friends and I have disagreements about something, I don't quit being friends.

It's that simple with the NRA. If ever there is an organization that everyone ALWAYS agrees with everything decided, expect the Rapture right about then :eek: ! We have 4 million people in the NRA protecting the rights of not only the other 80 million gun owners, but also those who don't care about their rights and freedoms.

All the smaller gun-rights organizations put togather don't have 1/100th the pull of the NRA. We have firearms today simply because of 3 letters, the NRA. The smaller groups have their place, but don't ever mistake WHY we still have our gunrights today. And if you weren't, or aren't a member of the NRA, you weren't a part of protecting that freedom

.

Flattop

volshooter · « **Reply #27 on:** January 19, 2003, 05:52:59 PM »

I'm with you FlattopLover, but how long would you and the ole lady stay together if you had to pay for the entire wedding every year? Let's just say that "some" groups only require 50% of dues to actually go towards membership and the other 50% to be kept by recruiters. If "some" groups only ask 50% of the new memberships, why do they demand 100% of renewals? See actual membership is not the full amount they demand, but they don't let you in on that secret. I have a "pal" that waives his comission every year so I get in for $15 Gun shows very often advertise that "join our "club" and you get in free"...free my foot, the promoter is or knows a recruiter and they make twice as much from you joining the "club" than if you paid door prices.
I've been to the "club house" in Va. it is a money venture with a side dose of your rights thrown in. Last trip a couple of "lifers" were with me and were basically told their voice didn't matter in the scheme of things. (they wished an audience to voice their displeasure with the clubs direction)
I've met Wayne, Moses and Mandrell, their heart is in the right place. May they live forever and not be blinded by the money.
Rick

PROUD SUPPORTER NRA, GOA, TFA, REF, SAS, SAF, RKBA, JPFO, I think you get the picture

Charlie Detroit · « **Reply #28 on:** January 20, 2003, 04:23:36 AM »

Well, we had a discussion like this on the old website...this one's got a little more heat...careful, we're all on the same side here, and none of us is a bad guy (except, maybe...welll...ummm) :wink:.
I think I started the last one by my statement that in my experience the NRA was only interested in CA$H, and plenty of it. For years I had been getting calls for money because I was a member. They could solicit me for money, but they couldn't manage to send my magazine or respond to any of my inquiries with anything but "you're not paid up; you're not a member." In my hand I had my membership card saying I was a member, up until such-and-such a date (now past), but they couldn't care less. I decided I couldn't, either.
I can recommend the JPFO...Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership...they're on the 'Net...<<http://www.jpfo.org>>. You don't have to be Jewish. If anybody understands the importance of private firearms ownership, it's GOTTA be these guys. BTW, the rabbi there doesn't have too high an opinion of the NRA, either.

jhalcott · « **Reply #29 on:** January 20, 2003, 06:42:10 AM »

Well said GB! I too am a lifer in the NRA! I am personally acquainted with Knox.He was a member of a gun club I belong to some years ago. We had many talks about the NRA higher ups. I belong to 2nd amenment foundation and GOA. I throw those requesrs for $ in the nearest trash can.
Mr Heston does NOT like modern fire arms period! He has an extensive collection of muzzle loading guns, mostly flintlocks.He thinks your "RIGHT" to own guns is a great way to make money and be in the public eye,for him! A big showhorse!
We can not do away with the NRA ,we must change it!Do not vote for the "in crowd".Vote for people who you Know will help keep your rights!
Rant mode over,thanks for listening, jh