Author Topic: 25 souper  (Read 6745 times)

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Offline ncsurveyor

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25 souper
« on: August 13, 2007, 07:19:52 AM »
Anyone doing a 25 souper?

Or should I expect crickets chirping waiting for a response?

JC

Offline Blackhawk44

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2007, 12:28:34 PM »
In case he doesn't chime in personally, here's something to start with: http://www.reloadingroom.com/page10.html

Offline Lone Star

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2007, 03:46:12 PM »
The .250 Ackley Improved data can be used as starting loads for the .25 Souper. 



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Offline tutti confuso

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2007, 05:49:56 AM »
Hi fellas... thought i'd read more on the site before making a post , but the souper threads caught my eye,  great site/board totally the best information so far.. as for the 25 souper i wouldn't hesitate building one if i could find a 700 Rem. action at a reasonable price, i've given it some thought i actually could replace two for my 700's with the .25  since i already own 4 700's,  i think i would sell one or two rather then making a donner out of one...they're farely new an they all shoot so darn well... i see some time has past since the original post, an couldn't help but to wonder if some one has gone ahead an built one ?
 what i would consider doing is actually blowing the .25 out to a AI.25souper to make it really worth while.. the next nearest would cartridge would be the 25 humdinger, it mite have a 200 fps advantage over the souper although not knowing barrel lenghts of either could make a difference,  but then i thought i read some where that rcbs already has been making dies for the .25 souper < not sure 100% on that an or if the those same dies could be re-cut to AI,.. i'd  love to hear more on this topic, hope it continues   :)
Ps/ love the speller check i'm SO BAD !
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Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2007, 06:30:34 AM »
I ended up getting Mr. Roberts.

BUT, I am in the process of trying to find an older left hand savage action with a clip (in an -08 derivative, so it will handle the same cartridge).

Want to get a slow twist (12 to 14) so it will handle lighter bullets.  I think this would make an excellent truck and varmint gun.

RCBS can make the dies, but they don't have them is stock.  souper AI dies can be custom ordered also.

I got rid of my 243 so I don't have to worry about chambering errors, as long as I don't confuse my roberts bullets for soupers or vice versa.

Not familiar with the humdinger, but I suspect the souper AI might work out if I can ensure no feed issues out of a bolt action.

Either way, the souper will be an all custom issue.  Barrel, dies, brass.  Not a stitch of factory production stuff out there except the other standard reloading components.

Maybe you and I can get a volume discount.

If they allow discounts for 2

And you switch to a savage.  ;)

Jeff

Offline tutti confuso

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2007, 07:45:42 AM »
Hi Jeff...Congrads on MrRoberts wise choice,.... i've had this souper on my mind for a long time, having mmmmany rifles,switching back an forth 'collectors, military, hunters' through the yrs. most all off the shelf or factory stuff,.. i thought it would be nice to own another real keeper, one i have is an Ithaca LSA65 in .270 an my first rifle i bought back in 1961 .35 Marlin SC,.. but now i finally would like to build one !
what i have now should keep me busy forever but just doesn't fill the want so to speak, they shoot just fine, but you know how it is, like candy ya just need to taste one more..lol's  as you mentioned .243, after selling a few guns 3yrs. ago i bought a new vls 243 don't  have 400rnds down the tube yet, liking the 700's so much after i moved here i came  into three other trades, an wound up with almost nib,  .223P, a 22-250 vls ss an .308P... all HB Rems.. did the norms triggers, free float, actually one has a jewel trigger now,  did a angle change on the .308 muzzell, so as you can see one of three could be a donner, but like i said i'd like to find an action first to build on maybe a pac-nor or shielen  barrel  would have to concider what bullet i'd most wanna shoot most before i thought of twist, as for the lenght i always think long barrel for a wildcat, i'm not to much of a tree climber anyway..  you mention Savage.. they have made really good shooters lately Savage/Stevens has a rifle with an interchangeable barrel deal, headspace is done with the barrel nut..? so i've heard,.... that you could probably purchase really cheap... would do the trick Maybe.... 
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Offline tutti confuso

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2007, 07:47:09 AM »
Ha !  ??? don't what all them lines are ... hope you can read the post .........  :-[
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Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2007, 08:38:11 AM »
Hi Jeff...Congrads on MrRoberts wise choice,.... i've had this souper on my mind for a long time, having mmmmany rifles,switching back an forth 'collectors, military, hunters' through the yrs. most all off the shelf or factory stuff,.. i thought it would be nice to own another real keeper, one i have is an Ithaca LSA65 in .270 an my first rifle i bought back in 1961 .35 Marlin SC,.. but now i finally would like to build one !
what i have now should keep me busy forever but just doesn't fill the want so to speak, they shoot just fine, but you know how it is, like candy ya just need to taste one more..lol's  as you mentioned .243, after selling a few guns 3yrs. ago i bought a new vls 243 don't  have 400rnds down the tube yet, liking the 700's so much after i moved here i came  into three other trades, an wound up with almost nib .223P, a 22-250 vls ss an .308P... all HB Rems.. did the norms triggers, free float, actually one has a jewel trigger now,  did a angle change on the .308 muzzell, so as you can see one of three could be a donner, but like i said i'd like to find an action first to build on maybe a pac-nor or shielen  barrel  would have to concider what bullet i'd most wanna shoot most before i thought of twist, as for the lenght i always think long barrel for a wildcat, i'm not to much of a tree climber anyway..  you mention Savage.. they have made really good shooters lately Savage/Stevens has a rifle with an interchangeable barrel deal, headspace is done with the barrel nut..? so i've heard,.... that you could probably purchase really cheap... would do the trick Maybe.... 

Cleaned up your reply a little

Switching a barrel on a savage is about as easy as changing a diaper.  Just more tools and a vice involved.
Using light bullets for maximum speed, I believe a 24" would work good.  My only concern about really long barrels is that I'm not one to punch paper for sport.  I don't mind a little target practice, but eventually, its going to need a baptism.

25 souper has been in my mind for a LONG long time.
I like short action rounds, (although I do have a 300 WM for long range/big game) and I also like the 308 (twisted Army allegience).  Could never understand why 25-08 didn't catch on.  Couldn't be because the bob got really popular.  Could be because the .243 got popular first, and no one ever felt like the extra 0.014 made a whoot.  But then that 25 WSM (WSSM?) business came along.

Still think its worth the effort.  My only hold out now is fining someone to chamber it at a reasonable price.  And getting the action for it.  And getting the dies.

All I can say its next on the list.  Along with a good double barrel shotgun for birds.

Offline tutti confuso

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2007, 10:30:37 AM »
Yep  thats abiut where i am rite now,... i'll probably sell something before i buy, an if its buy, it'll be a Rem action or bargin donner short action rifle, there is a idea out there there some one wrote, is to build the souper on a long action so as to be able to extened the bullet in the case out to be rite on the lands, perposef for easy extractions, either just to unload or a problem with a mis fire...etc.,.. it has a point, i just don't by the thought, as it could make a feeding problem worse'err-a..!
 like yourself i'm for the shorty actions ... as you can see with these closet queens  ::) that are just sit'n here
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Offline Lone Star

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2007, 02:49:43 AM »
The .25-08 never caught on because no one championed it to the masses.  The Roberts, the .243, the .244 - all were touted in the press by their creators or partons, stirring up interest.  That is what gets cartridges introduced, not merit.  ;)

Today there is little need for the .25 Souper, bracketed as it is by the .243 and the .260.  I went the .260 route and have been extremely happy with the choice even though I am a true .25 fan with half a dozen .257" rifles/handguns.  The .260 makes more sense for ease of finding, comp dies sets, and performance with bullets heavier than you can get in the .25s.  The issue with long seating can be fixed by having the chamber cut with a short throat.  My custom .260 had no problems seating the bullet (100 Nosler) to the lands yet extracting easily out of a short M7 action.


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Offline tutti confuso

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2007, 06:12:46 AM »
basically the 260 was an interesting cartridge, but it kinda lost its zip as commercial round to me !,  .. i guess it could be compared very closely with the Swed, an not all that much better... i've also heard that a 6.5 jap rifle makes for an easy conversion to the 260 with just a reamer if one was interest in making a A-square/260 rem. "not sure 100% on that".., it was put into the factory line-up  in the later ninties ?,  no doubt its a worthy gun, but  comparing ballistics as you say it drives a heavier bullet then the .25, but what you've done in that statement is jumped a hole, of coarse the larger diameter will have a heavier  bullet weight, giving need for more bearing surface that  would stabilize its flight,.
keeping in the same family of cases i can only think why not just buy a 7mm-08 to replace the 260Rem.,..another hole jump or so !
  my thoughts on building the .25 Souper isn't new, but changing it to AI  may have a new meaning to me, along with a custom rifle, not a factory chamber, plus the possibly that it could out do most of your .25's is a interesting thought as well,  i'm  not trying to compete with 6.5's.. although it mite?
there is no shortage of cases to be had, forming cases an having dies made is not a big deal today, also about the long chamber mentioned earlier, it wasn't a concern of mine  rather something i had read of another persons idea/worry/thoughts.. i would first consult with both a bullet  an the barrel maker on how long the throat should be anyway. i've never owned a 1/4bore so staying in that class, the goal here is that one hopes for better accuracy, a gain in velocity, more energy, flatter trajectory, less throat erosion which can be done by blowing out the shoulder to get more internal case space. hoping for great results, as one would, you'd wind up with a Souper personalize firearm....
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Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2007, 02:06:12 AM »
ncsurveyor ......
whats up w/the souper i'm still looking for action

I have a left hand long action, blind mag, savage lying around that I may just bite the bullet and use for this.  Again, hoping to get a clip fed because I think it would make a great truck gun, and would prefer the clips in that case.

Of course, with deer season right around the corner got to be money conscious.  I've been scanning the websites looking for a 25 cal blanks.  There's a gunsmithing school one county south of me and I thought I may see if some fine outstanding student would consider reaming it.  I would assume that it can be reamed with any 308 case reamer, but the throat would definitely have to be set with a dedicated tool.

Again, since hunting season is here, it is calming my gun urges a little, but I suspect that my passive approach will turn proactive after Christmas if I haven't made a lot of headway.

I had some notes lying around about bullet length vs weight and OAL in a short action.  Need to find those again and decide if I want big bullets in a fast twist, and if so, just how big I can get, so I know what twist to look for.

Maybe I'll just stick with some light weights?

Still undecided on the AI.  If I stick with varmint weights, I don't think it would help enough in the long run.  Heavy weight bullets would be a different story.


Decisions, decisions.

Still looking for a remmy action?



Offline tutti confuso

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2007, 08:18:48 PM »
ncsurveyor , how are you getting along since the last q-so... with in the next week or so i'll be getting my 700 rem action w/ 243 bolt face so... i need info on where to start .. smitty . barrel maker.., etc  also looking for loading data on either the .250 humdinger.. .25-243- 40* .25-308 AI   ,,,...  have found anything for yourself yet .. do you have any data i mite use ?
all suggestions welcome
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Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2007, 02:55:04 AM »
tutt,

I'll be working on a savage platform, so no gunsmith for me.  I'll have to pick a barrel maker, however.

As far as loads go, I seen one article on the souper that was linked above, with load data, but the link no worky.

With deer season, my immediate goal lies elsewhere, along with restoring a blackpowder fowler.

I won't start the souper until I get a short action clip fed left hand action.

Jeff

Offline tutti confuso

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2007, 01:08:41 PM »
sounds like a special order action  Rem makes a lefty an they have an after market adopter floor plate gizmo that will make it clip fed...
that savage is a good idea  a barrel bolt an wrench, ana  head space guage,....  two bad i have five 700's ......oh well...
well good luck with deer,,, i'm not to inspired down here in se nc  yet anyway  have till jan1st
looks like i'm going the humdinger way...  i just got an e-mal from a fella that tells why their is not to much info around on it 
the originator 1st built one  has #one " Briel Jackson, the designer" is  down under in Ausse   this other fella built one a couple of years ago an that one is  in Utah,.. an a friend of his,  is/ has one being built as we speak... thats a quote..
so if i get my took-us in gear i may be the fourth that we'll know about ?
i did finally figure my BP problem load out ... just add more BP ..lol's
well let me know how it goes .. i'll update ya when it happens
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Offline arky65

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2008, 09:50:42 AM »
surveyor, I know this is an old post but I built a 25 souper with a 1:14 twist barrel just for the light bullets. I have some limited load data I can share with you, if need PM me as I do not look in this forum often but will notice the PM flag when I log on the the site. Mine is scary accurate.

arky65

Offline ncsurveyor

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2008, 01:24:03 PM »
Thanks arky,

I am just now getting a line on a chamber reamer.

What kind of OAL do you have?  Whats your barrel length? I have a long action clip fed left hand donor now.  THe long action may be overkill, but I couldn't turn down the deal.


Offline 260 AAR

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2008, 03:40:12 PM »
Dear NC,
  I make up 5-10 Soupers every year. Into my third or fourth reamer now. This is one sweet cartridge and it`ll shock the shorts off you with it`s performance. I usually build them for the 100gr and lighter bullets as they  [and all] 25s seem to be at their best with the 100 gr bullets. This allows for a 1-10 or 1-12 twist and thus more velocity, less recoil and meat damage! The beauty of the little 25 Souper is that it works fine in almost all short actions--thus a lighter, handier and more fun gun.  For my own Souper I make the cases from Lake City NM 308 cases. They are more consistent in  weight and such than most commercial cases.  Once fire formed and loaded with a good bullet [I use the Sierra 100gr Pro Hunter #1620] with excellent results for deer and elk. Never tried a black bear but think it`d do ok as long as the range was moderate and the animal wasn`t running on adrenalin. AND shot placement was precise as is fairly easy with a light kicking rifle. I think if you get around to getting a Souper you will be VERY pleased with the ease of making the cases and the ease of working up loads. This cartridge is quite forgiving as to powders and primers. It seems to like most combinations and will shoot just about anything you want. I recommend this cartridge highly.
Aloha, Mark
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Offline tutti confuso

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2008, 04:15:19 AM »
ncsurveyor ... hey ,  i see your starting the projeck finally... great.. i've decided on the 250 humdinger, pic'd up a 700 action, also a hs alum. bed'd stock an my barrel is being made, 28' ss hb contour, hopefully i'll get it this month, contacted a smitty.. so its just a matter of time now..... looking foward to shooting it ...........  how was the deer season..
 
260 AAR.. you must do a lot of shooting or those barrels wear out quick... instead of form firing i'm thinking about having a forming die made .. the hydraulic system .. whats your take on that..

did know there were so many soupers an variations of them out there .. i've met on different boards over a dozen people with one in one shape or another .. an here i was making a one of kind... Lol's
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Offline RWK

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2008, 05:10:37 PM »
260AAR can you give me a shout at-- midnightmadbbgs@aol.com. Rich

Offline Nessmuk#1

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2008, 03:32:15 AM »
I hemmed and hawed about this myself awhile back.  Ended up going 25-284.  It's as fast as an 25-06 in a short-action case.  I really wanted the 25-308, but the 25-284 seemed like more bang in the same size action.  Also, 25-06 load data works with 25-284.
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Offline tutti confuso

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2008, 05:15:25 AM »
well after some time i finally completed the 250 humdinger [ as i call it my 25 Hum-D] ... it took a lot work setting it up an some time to work up load since there is practicaly no info specifically for that blown out case but i feel it was worth now
 it looks like with all the varations people are building on the 243/308 case in .25 cal i've been reading about lately.. the popularity is growing... alot can be said for these quarter bores .. who know maybe it will go commercial some day...


edit- ? whats with all the lines through the type ?
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Offline gimp4ever

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2010, 07:47:00 PM »
Hi.All. I Know that I'm way late in the game, Butt :I Have been reading about the 25 Souper,and can say that it is a very Fine Round. I Have 2 Gun's in this Round. The First one I got Back in the med 80's,I Have Shot Many a Deer With it.Very easy to Reload, 87gr,and 100gr.Over 50gr,870mg,powder,LMR,primer.Under 1/2",all day long. It Is Good To See Others Trying out. Thank You and God Bless.

Offline briannmilewis

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Re: 25 souper
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2010, 01:55:06 PM »
In case he doesn't chime in personally, here's something to start with: http://www.reloadingroom.com/page10.html

Getting a "Page not found" error.