Author Topic: Crud Ring??? (Read 1061 times)

Tank1425 · « **on:** August 12, 2010, 09:43:24 AM »

I have a 2003 Huntsman 24". Currently I'm working up a good load for this gun. First I tried 100GR Pyrodex with 295 Powerbelt HP and Winchester triple seven #209 caps. I have the Banned site plug. I'm getting a pretty bad fouling ring. I have to pull the plug and clean between each shot or else I can't load the next bullet. I have switched to Hodgons 777 FFF powder with the same bullets getting about a 4" widest spread group at 100yrds. So I'm still playing with the load, but whats with this ring and how do I get rid of it? Is it from the bullet moving off the front of my powder charge before complete ignition?? Thanks Guys!

fastchicken · « **Reply #1 on:** August 12, 2010, 10:44:12 AM »

Stop shooting Pyrodex. Aside from not having to use the primer carriers, the banned site plug lets you use Blackhorn 209 powder, no crud ring.

Tank1425 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 12, 2010, 11:54:31 AM »

To be honest I'm a little nervous of blackhorn 209, I have heard of some people having issues with ignition. Especially in cold weather. I live in MI and can't have that being an issue. Any experience with any ignition problems?

bubba · « **Reply #3 on:** August 12, 2010, 01:55:39 PM »

I have shot a lot of pyrodex and 777. Hnestly I get less of a build up with pyro then I ever have with 777. Even witht he crud ring, I habe never had to remove the breech pug to clean. Just run a patch down the barrel. I use cheap window cleaner, then a patch to dry and away I go. I now shoot pyrodex select 100 grains with the same plug and primer. That being said, I have never had it so bad I could not reload after a shot. I would not he any problems with a second shot in field if needed

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** August 12, 2010, 03:40:08 PM »

The crud ring is caused by the 209 primer supposedly, I've used musket nipples in my non-H&R inlines (cuz 209 aren't legal here) and 120gr loads of 777 and never had any problems.

Tim

Tank1425 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 12, 2010, 08:03:59 PM »

I could cram another shot down if need be. I just wondered if it was something I could get rid of. Bubba you use the exact same primers? I wonder why I get a bad ring? Any thoughts on primers that are working good for others?

I did do something today that I will have to give a range report on, I have some aerotip powerbelts the 223 grain versions. I removed the aerotip so they are standard HP. I never get the expansion with the tipped bullets and Powerbelt doesn't make a 223 grain HP. So I'm gonna see how they fly tomorrow, the tips were easy to remove so well see.

bubba · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2010, 02:29:26 AM »

yes I use 777 primers. See the crud ring is right at the plug. When you reload the powder covers the ring, so loading a proectile should no tbe much of a problem. The general consensus it to use a not so hot primer. I used remington 209-4 primers for a while. They were desigend for reloading 410 shells, and were noot as hot. I am out of them now, so I switched to the 777 primers. Another one that I hear has less of a crud concern is remington Kleen bore primers. T From my prsonal experiemce, I would stay away from power belts. Their performance on game in my own experience was less that acceptable. They fragmented on impact, poor penetration and wounded deer I needed to track a long ways. The best loading and performance I have seen is hornady xtp 44 caliber 240 grain in a harvestor crush riib sabot. Buy both in bulk bulets a box of 100, sabots packs of 50. Cheaper and very effective. I personally went to a lead bullet 240 grain round nose 44 cal pistol bullet I mold myself and the crush rib sabot. Very accurate out of my sidekick and encore,easy to load fo rsecond an dthird shots, and efective on deer.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2010, 03:25:37 AM »

I am not a fan of the powerbelts either a few guys here shoot them but for the most part the harvestor or other sabots get much more praise as do the full bore slugs which are my favorites. Kurt

bubba · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2010, 04:55:09 PM »

Kurt,

I have shot the t/c maxi hunters very well in my sidekick. If I could find a mold for them, I would still shoot them. But when I can mold my own bullets, it saves a considerable amount of money for me, even buying bulk sabots at 6 bucks for 50. This is froma guy who shoots probably 30 to 50 rounds almost every weekend. I aso molded some lee real bullets, with very poor success for accuracy.

Tank1425 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 15, 2010, 03:38:32 PM »

Bubba, I molded some 240 grain Lee round nose lead bullets with crush rib sabots and I couldn't squeeze anything very impressive at all out of em. I tried multiple powder combinations with no success. I know some people are not fans of the power belts but I'm gonna give them a try and see. If they shoot well and I place em right can't imagine they won't kill a deer. If they fragment on me then I guess back to the drawing board. But till I find something else that groups better.....

bikerbeans · « **Reply #10 on:** August 16, 2010, 03:42:52 AM »

Tank,

I have shoot BH209 in my Rossi MZ down to 10 degree F and had no problems with ignition. I use standard Winchester 209s, not the Muzzleloader 209s. I am now shooting BH209 in my Huntsman. The OH MZ Deer season is in the second week of January, maybe if I get lucky I will be able to report on the cold weather ignition of BH 209 in a H&R.

BB

bubba · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2010, 01:34:12 AM »

Tank,

I am pushing the 240 round niose with 90 grains of 777 fffg. I slso sized the bullets ti .429 which helped my consistency. At 100 y ards off the bench 1-2 inch groups is common.

walmpus · « **Reply #12 on:** August 19, 2010, 05:30:23 AM »

Tank,

I have a 2003 huntsman as well. I had a little bit of a crud ring problem with pyrodex, then switched to 777 (pellets) as soon as the came out and my crud ring problem went away, but I will say that using the 777 primers in my gun.........absolutely filthly! The regular winchester primers are cleaner for me.

I now shoot BH209 with 777 primers and I have never had any problems. The 777 primers were all I had, so the load I worked up I dont wanna change anything. If it working I dont change it.........I am funny that way, dirty or not.

As far as the BH209: I hunted with it last year in everything from pouring rain to dumping snow and even in zero degrees last year and I never had a problem with my huntsman hesitating at my time of need. I even had rain and/or snow going down the barrel and plus bumping into branches, snow would fall right down my barrel (and the back of my neck

. ) ......still no problem.

As for the powerbelts, I used the 245 aerotips for over 5 years before switching to harverster bullets/sabots. I dont really have any complaints with the powerbelts, I just felt like there were better bullets out there. I prefer a bullet to pass thru with an exit wound and rarely got that with powerbelts. They also seem to really drop after about 100 yards compared to using a bullet in a regular sabot. But if your hunting in that range....no problem. I noticed the bullets performed better the further out the deer was. I shot a doe at 20 yards thru the shoulder and the bullet didnt go thru, no blood trail, and the deer ran about 80 yards before my helpers found her (and this was a textbook shot). I shot another doe at about 80 yards out and it laid down the SMACK on her. I heard alot of complaints about powerbelts being too soft and exploxing when they hit a deer but I have to say in my experience I didnt have that problem. In fact, it was the opposite. They were so darn hard the bullets I recovered hardly did anything. It was almost like I could shoot them again. The good thing about powerbelts are they are available just about anywhere, they provide good accuracy, and no matter what powder combo you use, you can get a fairly quick and easy reload in the field if you need to.

wcb

Tank1425 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 19, 2010, 02:12:49 PM »

Walmpus thanks for the write up! I have been using triple seven loose and the win 777 primers and the crud ring has almost disappeared. I picked up some Hornady sst HP in 240 grains, with 100 grains of 777 and the win 777 primers and I just shot today a 2.25 widest spread group! I was pretty happy and at 14.00 for 20 not to bad on the wallet either. I think I will give these a try. I'm going to give pellets a try and see what happens, But I also thought about trying a little more powder and see what happens. I only have to 24" barrel so I'm not sure how much powder I can burn up in 24" I thought maybe 110 or 120grains of FFF and see if I can get a flatter trajectory and keep the accuracy well see I guess.

bubba · « **Reply #14 on:** August 19, 2010, 02:27:33 PM »

using loose powder, you should not exceed 120 grains. When they say 150 grains, that is pellets. 120 loose is equivelant to 150 pellets.

Tank1425 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 19, 2010, 02:32:35 PM »

Bubba, I have heard that before but never understood it. Is that because the loose is volume measurement versus grains? And is 120 grains of loose measured in volume equal to 150 grains in pellets?

1marty · « **Reply #16 on:** August 19, 2010, 02:35:53 PM »

I use 348 gr powerbelts, 2 777 pellets and 209 win primers. The 348 is super accurate in my omega and the most the deer have ever run was 25 yards. The 348 gr makes the difference. I season the barrel with wunder lube and the crud ring is gone.

bubba · « **Reply #17 on:** August 19, 2010, 02:51:23 PM »

I do no tknow how they figure it, but that comes from manufacturers of both powder and guns. I could no tpicture any more than 110 grains of loose burning in the length of the barrel again just my opinion on that

walmpus · « **Reply #18 on:** August 20, 2010, 07:54:57 PM »

Tank,

Sounds like your working up a pretty good load. I have always done well with hornady. As for the powder load in my huntsman, I have been using 100 grains of blackhorn and its been pushing the 300 grain scorpion pt gold like a champ and I have zero problems with complete powder burn. Anything above 100 grains of blackhorn (or any other loose powder) I cant vouch for because I have never tried it in my huntsman. Best of luck.

wcb

carbineman · « **Reply #19 on:** August 21, 2010, 06:13:09 AM »

Tank, I have had ignition in -14 degree weather here in Wisconsin after leaving my loaded Sidekick in the unheated garage overnight. I am using 80 grains of Blackhorn 209 with a Federal 209A primer. Busta and I had a discussion about it in a past topic posting. I'll see if I can find the topic and post the addy either here or run the topic back to the top of the forum.