Author Topic: Blackhawk .45 Colt woes (Read 3464 times)

bigmoon · « **on:** March 24, 2010, 06:44:58 PM »

I have a Blackhawk in .45 Colt that I bought used a few years back. It is a 1976 bicentennial model with a 4 5/8" barrel. I just love it, as it can be a pussycat to shoot, or, properly loaded, eases my mind when walking out of the woods after dark in archery season (we have neighbors who think black bears are "cute" and attract them).

Problem is that it is, by far, the most inaccurate pistol I have ever shot, and I used to shoot competitively. It's not leaded, locks up tight and has been re-crowned. Is this typical of this revolver, or can someone point me to a fix?

Joe B

countryroads · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2010, 08:16:18 PM »

bigmoon, I can't point you to a fix, but I can assure you that your problem isn't typical of Blackhawk revolvers. I have three, 41 Mag, 44 Mag, and 45 Colt. They are all accurate pistols. Good luck in finding the problem and the fix.

yooper77 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2010, 08:24:11 PM »

Quote from: bigmoon on March 24, 2010, 06:44:58 PM

I have a Blackhawk in .45 Colt that I bought used a few years back. It is a 1976 bicentennial model with a 4 5/8" barrel. I just love it, as it can be a pussycat to shoot, or, properly loaded, eases my mind when walking out of the woods after dark in archery season (we have neighbors who think black bears are "cute" and attract them).

Problem is that it is, by far, the most inaccurate pistol I have ever shot, and I used to shoot competitively. It's not leaded, locks up tight and has been re-crowned. Is this typical of this revolver, or can someone point me to a fix?

Joe B

Is it because of the re-crown job or was that a try to fix it?

I have a Ruger New Model Blackhawk in 45 Colt with 5 1/2" barrel and its very accurate with nothing modified.

yooper77

Bigeasy · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2010, 10:43:10 PM »

What do you consider inn -accurate to be? Since nothing else has been tampered with, I'd look at the re-crown. Also, measure the diameter of the chamber mouths and bore to see if there is an issue there.

Larry

flatgate · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2010, 02:19:18 AM »

I agree that the cylinder's throats are likely the source of your trouble. Ah, but make certain the muzzle's crown is in good shape.

Ruger has, in the past, produced .45's with oversized throats. Then they rectified that situation but ended up with undersized throats.

A Gentleman from Long Island will "open up" Ruger .45 Colt cylinder throats for a modest fee.
His web site is: http://www.cylindersmith.com/

flatgate

zacharoo · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2010, 03:06:05 AM »

I also have a 4 5/8 in. ruger 45 blackhawk 1976 model . My cylinder throats are oversized check yours. Mine likes .454 dia. bullets. With 270SAA bullets in .454 dia. with 12.5 gr. of HS-6 it will shoot 2 1/5 in. at 25 yards if I do my part. That is from a rest. I would like better but that is good for me. I would like more of these bullets. They were given to me by a good person. I have just a few left and I cherish them.

Zacharoo

wiley · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2010, 06:32:54 AM »

Might try these, not only are they .454", they also have a shallow cup in the base:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1601446981

bigmoon · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2010, 10:44:41 AM »

Quote from: wiley on March 25, 2010, 06:32:54 AM

Might try these, not only are they .454", they also have a shallow cup in the base:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=1601446981

I bought some of these this winter, I'll try them when the weather breaks. I'm hoping they help. The (apparent) recrown job was done before I got the gun, and appears well done, i.e. professionally. This leads me to believe that the previous owner had accuracy problems, too.

How inaccurate is it? It MIGHT keep all six on a 12" x 12" target at 25 yards. Good enough for "minute of bear attack", but I would never shoot at a deer with it. In spite of all this, though, it still is a really fun gun to shoot, very John Wayne-ish.

I'll send the cylinder to the Cylindersmith; it can't hurt and may cure the problem cheaply. Thanks to all for the input.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2010, 10:58:19 AM »

I've never seen an inaccurate Blackhawk. Can't be the pistol, it's gotta be something else.

The inaccuracy is truly inaccuracy and not typical of a Blackhawk. You should be getting three inch groups with somewhat of ease. It's not gonna do you any good on a "minute of bear attack". That 12X12 will surely turn into 24X24 in a rush to shoot it.

Mtn Jack · « **Reply #9 on:** March 25, 2010, 01:35:54 PM »

Go to the LBT mould site and ask Veral about this problem, he is a sponsor on Grey beards and knows what the problem is with them .45s. Good luck Mtn Jack

flatgate · « **Reply #10 on:** March 27, 2010, 03:13:17 AM »

I have a 7-1/2" .45 cal. Blackhawk that has the "Made in the 200th Year of American Liberty" rollmarked barrel.

It had oversized throats. Ruger replaced the cylinder at no charge. The new cylinder had "tight" throats, a situation easily rectfied.

The revolver shoots quite well.

It outshoots it's Old Model cousin......

flatgate

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2010, 03:21:54 AM »

A one foot group at 25 yards has got to mean something other than the little things mentioned above. It should shoot way better than that even if the barrel had no rifling. I think something catastrophic happened to that gun before you got it.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2010, 05:39:46 AM »

I agree Mike, the worst load I've ever fired from any Ruger revolver of any caliber did better than that. I'd send it to Ruger with an explaination of the problem.

Dale53 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2010, 08:49:37 PM »

Last fall I bought a new Ruger SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP Convertible. It had undersized throats, leaded and lost accuracy quickly as it was shot. I borrowed a proper Manson Reamer kit, reamed the cylinder throats (both cylinders) to .4525" and now in both calibers it shoots like a match pistol. It shoots well under 1" at 25 yards off a rest and you can shoot it all day without leading AT ALL.

I had a trigger job done and modified the original pawl to a free spin pawl and it has become a regular shooting machine.

Dale53

Gene R · « **Reply #14 on:** April 01, 2010, 03:30:41 AM »

I have about 6 Blackhawks and all shoot extremely well and nothing has been modified yet. I would also recommend sending it back to Ruger and let them check it out..

bigmoon · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2010, 03:31:07 PM »

Message sent to Ruger over the weekend. We'll see what they have to say (within 3 business days).

Maybe I'll have a .45 ACP cylinder fitted while it's there?

Thanks for the help and advice.

Joe B.

bigmoon · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2010, 10:13:26 PM »

Got my answer, pretty much what I expected: Send it in an we'll take a look at it. So I wrote them a letter describing my problem and requesting a quote for fitting a .45 ACP cylinder to it.

I wrapped it all up real secure, weighed it, and went to UPS and FedEx websites to see how much to ship it to NH. WOW!

It's been a while since I sent a handgun anywhere, but WOW!

Like $50 one way. And then another $30 to get it back, too. So that's $80 invested so far, and they haven't even opened the package. Figure at least another $100 for the additional cylinder, plus possible fees to look at/repair it.

If I didn't like the gun so much, and hadn't had it for so long, and didn't get a really good deal when I bought it, I'd consider selling it and buying a new one. Good thing I did well at the gun show last weekend.

Some days the bear gets you.......

Tom C. · « **Reply #17 on:** April 14, 2010, 06:54:54 AM »

I have sent one 7 1/2" SS NMBH in .45 Colt for a .45 ACP cylinder, and three 7 1/2" SS NMBH in .45 Colt for a .45 ACP cylinder and 5 1/2" barrel. Most have needed to be reamed, including the .45 ACP cylinders. One .45 ACP cylinder measured .455", but shoots well anyway. One measures .451", but shoots Mil Ball so well I don't dare mess with it, but all shoot well. The .45 ACP seems to be able to tolerate oversized throats, but the .45 Colt won’t. They will probably have to put in a new cylinder. That is a good thing. They may be getting the throats closer to correct now, but if they aren’t, reaming will cure that and most other manufacturing irregularities.

OSOK · « **Reply #18 on:** April 14, 2010, 07:55:43 PM »

While it is gone to Ruger go to the Beartooth Bullets website and read the tutorial on the Ruger Blackhawk. Lots of good information and a detailed description on tuning the cylinder throats and forcing cone.
I've never seen a blackhawk that didn't shoot better than the operator could run it, so there is definately an issue with the gun.
Good luck,
Les

bigmoon · « **Reply #19 on:** April 25, 2010, 08:13:49 AM »

   You're right, lots of interesting articles there; I read some bookmarked it.

   Also, while it's away, I'm considering re-bluing it when it returns, especially if it comes back with a new cylinder or two. I don't remember, and can't check right now, if the grip frame is steel. It's not vital that I know immediately, but can anyone settle my curiosity?

   Are there any parts of the Blackhawk that I would NEVER want to put into the bluing salts?

Joe B.

flatgate · « **Reply #20 on:** April 29, 2010, 01:53:01 AM »

The vast majority of Ruger Blackhawks have die cast aluminum grip frames.

The Super Blackhawks have steel grip frames.

flatgate

bigmoon · « **Reply #21 on:** April 29, 2010, 10:45:06 AM »

Thank you, sir. I thought as much.

I just heard back from the Ruger factory. All together, with the new cylinder, shipping, taxes, etc., his price is $150, plus a few dollars for him, of course. We'll see when it gets back if it shoots any better, but at least it'll be convertible.

I wouldn't even be terribly disappointed if it just shoots the .45 ACP hardball well. I have lots of that, and the .45 Colt, hot loaded, will still be a "minute of bear" gun. We'll see and I'll let you know.

Joe B.

bigmoon · « **Reply #22 on:** July 09, 2010, 11:59:55 AM »

An update:

I got my Blackhawk back from Ruger last week, with the additional .45 ACP cylinder installed.

They replaced a whole bunch of parts, including the entire rear sight, cylinder pin, pawl, hand and all my Wolff springs

. Due to some minor foot surgery I haven't had it to the range yet, but it looks so nice that I decided to give the old girl a makeover. New Hogue grips, new front sight paint (red to yellow), white outline rear blade, a Wolff spring pac, and Power custom shims for the trigger and hammer. For now, touch-up blue will have to do, I might re-blue the steel frame, barrel, and old cylinder later. Total spent so far: just over $200, including about $50 for shipping both ways. Not bad, if it finally shoots true.

For right now, i have only changed the grips and paint; the rest will wait on the bench until I wring out the factory work. I'll post the results.

Joe B.

flatgate · « **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2010, 06:39:19 AM »

I wish I'd known you had aftermarket springs installed 'cause I would have warned you about what was going to happen.

I'd strongly suggest you measure the cylinder's throats prior to testing the gun. If they are smaller than 0.452"-0.4525" then I'd strongly recommend you contact www.cylindersmith.com. (I'm pretty certain that was your original problem with the gun.)

Why bother with odd sized bullets? Get the throats sized correctly!

flatgate

PS You don't need aftermarket springs, anyway. Ruger's mainspring works great. The "poor boy's trigger job" will fix the trigger pull unless it's real creepy in which case a bit of work is in order. JMHO.

bigmoon · « **Reply #24 on:** July 24, 2010, 11:07:58 AM »

   Well, flatgate, I took your advice and measured the cylinders. Sure enough, they both measured undersized.

   So off they went to the Cylindersmith for throating. Eight days later they are back home and look great. As they should, since his reamers fell right through all the chambers, both cylinders. (sigh) As a gunplumber, I make a pretty good janitor. I did get a nice refund, and I think I'll just forget to mention this whole episode to my wife, it would only upset her. And now I have seed money for a Handi 7-08 barrel. Or maybe a new caliper.

   If I get this cast off my leg on Monday, will try the new, improved, old Ruger at the range. I'll let you know how it goes.

Joe B.

BTW: I think you're right about the mainspring, I'll leave it stock. I did replace the base pin latch spring, as I had a problem with the pin working out with heavy loads. The jury's still out on the trigger spring. It drops the pull by a full pound, but we'll see how it does in live fire.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #25 on:** August 18, 2010, 07:11:56 PM »

Well Bigmoon, how does the blackhawk shoot?

I've been following this thread, as I picked up a nice looking older blackhawk (converted to a bisley model) at a gunshow last year and it won't shoot anything I feed it. The throats are 0.4545 and I've tried 452, 453 & 454 cast bullets in various weights. Best grouping I've managed is around the 4" mark at 25 yards rested, which I don't consider to be acceptable.

bigmoon · « **Reply #26 on:** August 18, 2010, 10:01:37 PM »

I'm not sure yet. I had it out once and it seemed better, but I was shooting with a badly sprained wrist, and I'm waiting to heal before I shoot it again.

FWIW - Previously, I'd have been happy if mine would have shot anywhere close to 4" @ yards. One of the things they did at the factory was to replace the rear sight, which I never would have thought of. You might want to check yours to see if it is secure.

Joe B.