Author Topic: "Should I Get A CCW" Advice (Read 1418 times)

kmittleman · « **on:** November 21, 2010, 05:45:58 AM »

Hi All,

I wanted to see what you all thought about a CCW for my situation. I own a business where we're open until 9pm or so and we have cash on hand. Over the past several years, my car was broken into once, there was an attempted break in, and we recently have a situation where we are pressing charges on someone for passing bad checks. The latter has numerous warrants out for his arrest and when caught, I will be called into court to testify. The question is, safety. We're a music school and have lots of kids here in and out. I figured if I kept a small revolver on me, it could be ok but I don't know. Also, what's the safest carry option (ankle, pocket,etc).

Thanks in advance!

-Kevin

Brett · « **Reply #1 on:** November 21, 2010, 07:57:44 AM »

As long as you take reasonable precautions around your pupils I see more reasons to get a CCW than not in your situation. Not sure where you live and what the requirements are for you to obtain a carry permit but I would recommend that you take a CCW course whether your state requires it or not.

As far as where to carry concealed I firmly believe that there is none better than inside the waste band in a good IWB holster. The gun is in your control at all times and easily accessible to you if you need it in a hurry.

Dee · « **Reply #2 on:** November 21, 2010, 08:04:29 AM »

Askin "ME", if "I" think, "YOU" should get a CCW, is like askin "ME", if "YOU" should like BBQ ribs.

Do "YOU" think, "YOU" should get a CCW?

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #3 on:** November 21, 2010, 08:46:35 AM »

Yea, what he said. A no brainer for me, but each person must decide for themselves.

I will say this though. Having the permit to carry and actually carrying are not the same. A couple days of class and driving around might be time well spent. My wife went into the class as much to shut me up as anything, she left with a new attitude.

Think about the training needed. You aren't in a "normal" atmosphere and extra training can't hurt. Carrying a toolbox doesn't make you a mechanic, nor does the gun make you a cop.

kmittleman · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2010, 08:48:51 AM »

Quote from: Dee on November 21, 2010, 08:04:29 AM

Askin "ME", if "I" think, "YOU" should get a CCW, is like askin "ME", if "YOU" should like BBQ ribs. Do "YOU" think, "YOU" should get a CCW?

Well ribs are delicious so I'll take that as a veiled "YES"

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

highwayman · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2010, 03:06:55 PM »

if you have to ask the answer is yes. i live in a town of about 5000 people. meth and crack is everywhere. glock 19 inside waist band and spare mag in back pocket when i leave the house.

jhm · « **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2010, 01:16:45 AM »

you stated music SCHOOL, you might look into the state regs. to see if the word school will prevent you from carrying, if not the simple answer is yes and carry all the time. HTH, Jim

Spirithawk · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2010, 02:43:24 PM »

I agree with jhm, you need to check the laws in your state. Here where I live, according to the Missouri Concealed Weapons Law booklet put out by the Highway Patrol, it is not legal to carry inside any school.

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2010, 01:24:20 AM »

Ummm, guys, I think you need to check the definition of 'school' in your state before you say - 'no carrying in a school'. I think a public school is one thing and public schools are the focus of the anti-gun laws in schools but you also need to find out if the criminal procedure laws under which you are licensed to carry either supercede or are subject to the education laws or policies that prevent carry on school grounds. BTW - I doubt the local police know and no district attorney or state attorney general is going to clarify it - all they will do is cite either policy, regulation or law and they may not tell you which one it is, which menas they may 'counsel' their answer to benefit their existing policy.

I do not think a 'music school' is considered a public institution (which receives public education funding), just as a karate school is not, nor is a 'driving school' or diving school, or shooting school' and it is possible that even private schools (schools that do not receive public funding) are not considered public institutions. You also need to check your state laws and have a 'gun friendly' lawyer do that.

I believe there is a federal law or at least a 'policy', so I have thought that prevents or makes it illegal to carry on school grounds but I believe that is based on whether federal funding is involved. The feds simply cannot make law, even educational law, that supercede state law or the state's right to make law that blankets all possibilities (ps: education is not homeland securita). The feds can attach requirements to federal funding but I don't know that they can make law based on funding programs. State law may supercede federal law but again, you need to determine whether your State's laws or Constitution under which you are licensed supercede the education laws or policies that prohibit firearms on school grounds or are subject to them.

nys, for example, cites both federal education 'policy' and state law to prohibit firearms on school grounds but folks, gimme a break - a policy is nothing more than a procedural statement - it does not carry the strength of law or even regulation. Regulations based on policy statement cannot become law - far too many court cases on this one.

You really need a no-nonsense gun friendly lawyer to interpret your state's laws for you and to inform you of your legalities. Good luck.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2010, 06:50:16 AM »

Quote from: Mikey on December 10, 2010, 01:24:20 AM

Ummm, guys, I think you need to check the definition of 'school' in your state before you say - 'no carrying in a school'. I think a public school is one thing and public schools are the focus of the anti-gun laws in schools but you also need to find out if the criminal procedure laws under which you are licensed to carry either supercede or are subject to the education laws or policies that prevent carry on school grounds. BTW - I doubt the local police know and no district attorney or state attorney general is going to clarify it - all they will do is cite either policy, regulation or law and they may not tell you which one it is, which menas they may 'counsel' their answer to benefit their existing policy.

I do not think a 'music school' is considered a public institution (which receives public education funding), just as a karate school is not, nor is a 'driving school' or diving school, or shooting school' and it is possible that even private schools (schools that do not receive public funding) are not considered public institutions. You also need to check your state laws and have a 'gun friendly' lawyer do that.

I believe there is a federal law or at least a 'policy', so I have thought that prevents or makes it illegal to carry on school grounds but I believe that is based on whether federal funding is involved. The feds simply cannot make law, even educational law, that supercede state law or the state's right to make law that blankets all possibilities (ps: education is not homeland securita). The feds can attach requirements to federal funding but I don't know that they can make law based on funding programs. State law may supercede federal law but again, you need to determine whether your State's laws or Constitution under which you are licensed supercede the education laws or policies that prohibit firearms on school grounds or are subject to them.

nys, for example, cites both federal education 'policy' and state law to prohibit firearms on school grounds but folks, gimme a break - a policy is nothing more than a procedural statement - it does not carry the strength of law or even regulation. Regulations based on policy statement cannot become law - far too many court cases on this one.

You really need a no-nonsense gun friendly lawyer to interpret your state's laws for you and to inform you of your legalities. Good luck.

+1 Good advice!

Mohawk · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2010, 12:23:05 PM »

rdmallory · « **Reply #11 on:** December 11, 2010, 03:43:13 AM »

Go take the class, then decide.

You will find out about the law and what is right and wrong in your state. You will also have to decide can you pull the trigger if you need to, the firearm not not for threats but defense. And be prepared to practice at least one a month.

Doug

Knucklehead · « **Reply #12 on:** December 12, 2010, 05:59:43 AM »

Hi, I was going to respond, and give you some info you should know, and then just decided to skip it. That being said, I then ran into this a few posts down, and decided to re- post this for you in this thread. Let me say this first.. I carry. However, you should be aware of the responsibility, as in...cost. Make DAMN sure its worth it. Because it IS expensive, should you have to fire upon somebody (and live). Please read this from another post.

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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 12:40:03 PM » Quote

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Ive never posted on this forum before but here is a real life situation that occured here in co. a number of years ago. I'll keep this as brief as I can. A family member went to a neighbors house for coffee one morning. This neighbor was going through very bad divource and had a restraining order against her husband. husband showed up about 10 am and was beating on the front door wanting in. The wife told him to leave and she was calling the police. husband broke through the picture glass window next to the fireplace and was standing on a couch with a knife in one hand and a hammer in the other screaming that he was going to kill her. family member pulled a chiefs special from her purse and warned him to leave. husband stepped off couch and rushed the women. family member fired one shot ( 158gr lead rnd nose) hit him square in the pump station and exited the back. hubby dropped right there. slug hit front of mantle and bounced off at right angle through garage door. police arrived and arrested family member for murder. After all the evidence and testimony was presented to the D.A he dropped all charges but not before we had encurred considerable attorney fees and the acompanning stress and intimidation from the PD. This was a small bedroom community and their first homicide. I was privy to some of the autopsy photos and while a simular situation may yield different results , I have no doubt as to the effectivness of the 38 spl. as long as it's put in the right place. The aftermath of all this was countless hrs. of counseling/therapy, crying, remorse, nightmares etc. But the alterative to all this would have been much worse had she not been armed. Toxicolgy results showed hubby was loaded to the gills with booze and meth. The fact he went down with one shot is interesting. There it is in short form. I could fill pages with details.

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Re: THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN SLOW
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 12:45:30 PM » Quote

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Shame she went thru. all that but every class I have taken tells you it is murder and you most likely will be arrested . The last class said it runs about 40 thousand avg. to get free if it was a clean shooting.
Makes one think they can't afford to protect themselves .

Knucklehead · « **Reply #13 on:** December 12, 2010, 06:02:01 AM »

Forty thousand dollars, IF you get free......

Brett · « **Reply #14 on:** December 12, 2010, 07:20:51 AM »

Yeah but being dead broke is still better than just plain dead. Seems to me a really smart lawyer could sue someone for your pain, suffering and monetary losses if it is found to be a justifiable shooting. After all we hear about cases where a criminal or his family sues his intended victim when the table is turned on him and he ends up maimed or dead, some times winning big awards too.

I know of a case where the family of a thief sued a coal company and won. The thief fried himself cutting into a live wire with a chain saw he was using to break into the coal companies tool shed on their property that he was trespassing on.

In another case an underage girl who was turned away at the door of a nightclub sued the night club when she injured herself falling on her face while attempting to crawl in thew the ladies room window of the club.

If criminals can sue for being injured while committing criminal acts I don't see why innocent people cannot sue criminals for their losses while defending themselves from criminal acts.

Mohawk · « **Reply #15 on:** December 12, 2010, 07:47:12 AM »

A knife in one hand and a hammer in the other? Pretty clear cut there and the DA obviously saw that. Thousands of dollars? For what? it was dropped. On a clean shooting I would use a legal aid if I knew a Grand Jury was going to No Bill me. I guess it depends where you live and circumstances around it. My father in law was a Former Army Chaplain, a one star. Vey gracious man. When asked by another committee member "What would you do if you found your daughter being raped?" He calmly said I would sit in a jail cell and drink coffee and read until I was let go. May be a day, maybe 20 yrs but I did what needed to be done. That is good logic. He didn't make Brigadier by making poor decisions. You will "know" when deadly force should be applied. And you "will" apply it regardless of legal fees or any other deterent.

Mohawk · « **Reply #16 on:** December 12, 2010, 11:28:43 AM »

And a side note. The .38 Spl Lead Round Nose aint so shabby. It works if you place it where it should be like any thing else. It being "anemic" defies all common sense and physiology. The horror stories surrounding it could happen with anything and not round specific IMHO. Yes we have better bullets but the LRN is still a bullet that will kill quick, make no mistake. Even at 600 fps it can be brutal. In my personal experience, outside of work, I have had this load be the equivelant to the FBI load on deer, just an example. It is good to hear an honest story about this load. Self defense didn't start with hollow points but the shooter has had to ALWAYS shoot well.

Knucklehead · « **Reply #17 on:** December 13, 2010, 01:51:50 PM »

Well, guess I better point out again that I started with "I carry". I'm not trying to disuade anyone from carrying, I am just pointing out both sides of the scenario, he asked, ....he should be told the complete story before he makes his decision. I have made mine.... I carry.
However, Mohawk states "Thousands of dollars? For what? It was dropped"

What was said in the post was " After all the evidence and testimony was presented to the D.A he dropped all charges but not before we had encurred considerable attorney fees and the acompanning stress and intimidation from the PD.

Sure, you can try to sue to get your money back, I was just pointing out that it did cost thousands of dollars first. Did the family member do the right thing in protecting their friend? I think so..... But anyone questioning whether or not they should carry should know that if you shoot someone OUTSIDE of your OWN house, it can, and often does, go very, very badly for the shooter. As is also evidenced by the previous post where criminals and underage girls are sucessfully sueing innocent , legal upstanding citizens, and winning.

Just a case for choosing your battles carefully, thats all. Nothing more, or less....

Mohawk · « **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2010, 01:43:10 PM »

The state or even the locality of jurisdiction will justifying your legal fees, for example. More liberal means more legal fees. There was a very clean burglar shooting in south oak cliff(Dallas) where I grew up. The home owner drilled a home invader with a deer rifle. Owner took the time to obtain the sight picture from the top of the stairs. Just like a deer stand hunting scenario. Oak cliff is rather poor and the man, if he had an attrney, it couldn't have been a costly one. But he made out OK and the shooting was ruled justified. I guess it depends where you live. That would probably be murder one in other states.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #19 on:** December 14, 2010, 03:37:12 PM »

Just heard on the local news about a shooting. Seems a woman's x-husband chased her into her neighbor's house with a knife after already beating her. He crashed in through a large window trying to get to her. The neighbor's husband shot the guy 7 times. Believe it or not the guy lived last I heard. No charges were filed against the shooter. Cops just said the guy got what was coming to him and left it at that.