Author Topic: Instant leading removal (Read 3498 times)

kbmoly · « **on:** July 28, 2003, 05:25:28 AM »

Years ago, I went through all the typical leading removal techniques up to and including steel wool and liquid mercury. The simple, easy and safest method I ever came up with was to load a few cc's of Cream of Wheat breakfast cereal (UNCOOKED!) below a cast bullet. I won't bore you with the details of how it came about (you can look it up in back issues of The Fouling Shot), but you can even shoot bullets just as they drop from the mold, without sizing, lubrication or gas checks. And you will not only not get a trace of leading, but a shot or two will remove any leading already there.

Works with almost any load too, so you don't need to use it with gut busting max loads: It WILL raise pressures a bit. But I've used it with loads so light that once the only sound was click and the sound of a .30 bullet hitting the backstop. Investigation showed that there wasn't enough pressure to push the wad of Cream of Wheat out of the bore. It had compacted into a solid mass that REALLY scrubs the bore as it passes. I guess that's how it works. The wad was so hard that a cleaning rod bounced off of it rang like I'd bounced it on an anvil, and I had a time getting the cereal out of the bore. But the bore is bright, clean and dry after each shot. In fact, you'll probably need to oil it to prevent rusting after you shoot these loads.

HTH
kbmoly

BR · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2003, 07:20:02 PM »

Do you keep the Cream of Wheat separated from the powder with card wads, or just pack the cartridge full? How does that work in bottle neck cartridges? It sounds like a bit of a logjam.

lewisgoldstein · « **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2003, 10:24:23 AM »

Go to the supermarket and buy a copper "choreboy".
Cut off some strands and wrap around a used brass brush. Brush.
All the lead will come out very quicky. - Lew

Lead pot · « **Reply #3 on:** September 27, 2003, 08:30:06 AM »

This is a good way.I have used this for many years,and you probably will never buy a bore brush again for your straight walled cartridge case.When I load the blackpowder cartridge I load it the same way compress the powder like mormal.Insted of seating the bullet I fill the case with wads,and use the compresion die to pack the wads and top it off with more wads till the case is compleatly full.For my .40 caliber I use about 9/16"stack of wadsThe only die you have to change the setting on is the seating die.Roll a good crimp on the case so the wads have some back pressure to ignite the powder better,like a blank.
I run a wet patch through the bore to get the powder fouling out.I use a patch soaked with Kroil or a good pennetrating oil and let it set a few minutes and fire one of the rounds.The oil is optional.This cleans all of the lead out of my straight walled rifles cases with one shot.
Lp.

RussB · « **Reply #4 on:** September 27, 2003, 02:32:44 PM »

kbmolly...I have heard of the "cream-o-wheat" thing for many years albeit I've never tried it. I will be going to the range this week, and you can bet this cream of wheat is going to get it's chance. My own feeble concept of what's happening in the barrel has prevented me doing this before, but "yat-ta-hay" nothing ventured, nothing gained.
There has got to be something to this, as too many people are advocating it's use.
Respectfully, Russ

BR · « **Reply #5 on:** September 27, 2003, 09:17:08 PM »

Has anybody ever tried Cream of Wheat with smokeless loads, in a cartridge like 30-30?

Selmer · « **Reply #6 on:** October 17, 2003, 02:34:24 PM »

BR, my father and I were discussing this issue this weekend and I'll try it with my .454 Encore, but bottle-necked cases would be a bad idea, here's why. If the cream of wheat really hardens like that under heat and pressure, it wouldn't make it through the bottle neck, result, blown up gun and possibly shooter, so to summarize, probably a bad idea.
Selmer

BR · « **Reply #7 on:** October 19, 2003, 06:12:34 PM »

That was my concern too. I've since heard from a shooter in New Zealand who sounds like he has done rather well with a .303. (See http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/castbullets/index.pl?read=1004
-follow the replies down.)

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #8 on:** October 20, 2003, 04:46:11 AM »

I've done it in a .45-70. Being southern, I used cornmeal. My intent was as a sub for a gas check for PB bullets. Seemed to work. Did create a big cloud of cornmeal downrange.

Might have to try it again in my .357 Max. Haven't had any luck with PB bullets at more than very moderate velocities.

Wouldn't try it in a bottleneck case, though.

As a side note, shotgun reloaders once used oiled sawdust as a sub for wads. Think they loaded card wad, sawdust, card wad.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2004, 06:19:57 AM »

I tried this. See my post about case-head separation on the "Hand loading" forum.

I used 5 grains of W231 and the remainder of the case filled with grits.

I took the part of the case that came out and put a 5.4 grain charge of W231 in it and the W231 came right about flush to the top. Therefore it looks to me like the case came apart at the juncture of the powder and the filler.

It was a .38spl case fired in a .357 lever action.

Some other contributing factors may be:
The case was previously fired in another gun, full-length resized, then fired in my gun. But it was a Federal case.

And the case is stuck in there good. I tried the usual methods, oversized brush, freezing the gun (we're in the middle of a sub-zero freeze now) and brushing or jag w/ thick patch, slugged bore with bullet hoping bullet would snag casemouth. No luck.

waksupi · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2004, 08:39:43 AM »

Black Jack, try this. Take some paper towel, and tear it into pieces you can put down the muzzle easily. Tamp them as you go. Keep adding until the compacted mass is above the cartridge mouth. They must be tamped in solid. Then, open the lever. Then, tap the tamping rod against the plug. This will probably remove the broken case for you. I've had to do this a couple times with an old Sharps over the years, and it worked well. A lever gun may take a bit more fiddling, but I doubt it, as the rim is already gone, and the extractor won't have any strain on it.

FAsmus · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2004, 09:00:46 AM »

Gentlemen:

The inert filler method for removing leading works well. I use uncooked Hominy Grits for all my filled loads. Larger granuals clean best!

I have a very good load for the 45 LC Ruger Blackhawk; accurate, pleasent to shoot but due to an undersize 200 grain bullet, leads some. I always make sure I have about three or four rounds made up with 12 grains Blue Dot and 10 grains grits under the typical 250 grain bullet along when I use the light pleasent-shooting load. When the regular shooting is complete I shoot the "cleaning shots" and I'm done! All the pistol needs more is to be wipped off and put away.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

w30wcf · « **Reply #12 on:** January 06, 2004, 01:25:35 PM »

Howdy Forrest, good to see you here. Interesting discussion.

Does any one know the mechanics of how a filler helps clean lead out of a barrel?

Mechanically speaking, the filler acts as a seal between the bullet base and the powder gases. The bullet, unaffected by the powder gas actually does the cleaning .... like gum cleaning gum.

No doubt, the filler may help a little, but I would bet that the bullet does most, if not all, the lead removal.

I have also found that plain based bullets of the proper b.h.n./ velocity will do the same thing without a filler.

Sincerely,
John

aka w30wcf

waksupi · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2004, 01:39:30 PM »

That is a good point. A few low velocity cast rounds seem to clean the bore as well as anything, without fillers.

FAsmus · « **Reply #14 on:** January 07, 2004, 10:52:43 AM »

John,

J: Mechanically speaking, the filler acts as..

F: I'll go right with you on this.

Also Waksupi's post is right-on: I've successfully "cleaned" my Blackhawk after shooting a load that leaded lightly with the reduced load of Lyman 452460 and 7 grains Bullseye, no fillers.

For my pistol the critical thing is to match the bullets to chambers. If I shoot bullets that are under chamber throat size I'll get lead no matter what.

When the bullets match or are slightly over chamber throat sizes everything goes wonderfully well. My older 452460 casts at 0.455; a perfect fit for the slightly oversize chambers in my gun..

When they jump the gap and are forced into the barrel nothing adverse has ever happpened.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

Robert357 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2004, 04:08:16 PM »

The following article discusses the use of filler in cast bullets. What I found interesting is that the weight of the filler needs to be considered as part of the "bullet's weight" when figuring out the powder load.

That is a safe load, might turn "unsafe" if enough filler is added. A sobering thought.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/castfiller/index.asp

waksupi · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2004, 06:12:07 PM »

Yes, I remembered this being covered about thirty years ago, in regard to muzzleloaders. On the onset of it's regaining popularity at that time, many thought they could pour any amount of powder down the bore, and it would all shoot out of the muzzle. It did, but also was raising pressures to above a comfortable level. It definitely must be considered in as projectile weight, and is why you should start developing a load with filler from the start, and not put it in as an afterthought.

hiram · « **Reply #17 on:** January 11, 2004, 12:58:29 PM »

Do you think cream of wheat lead removal process would work for copper fouling?

w30wcf · « **Reply #18 on:** January 12, 2004, 01:15:22 AM »

hiram,

I don't think so but there is a good chance that the cast bullets will.
See my post "removing copper fouling with cast bullets".

w30wcf

FAsmus · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2004, 04:56:26 AM »

Hiram,

H: Do you think cream of wheat lead removal process would work for copper fouling?

F: A good cast bullet load will indeed clean out jacketed fouling.

Typically the cast bullet load should be medium to low velocity and include a Gas Check, no filler of any kind is necessary for this procedure to work. The check is not manditory at all, but most bullet designs include one and they do no harm.

The "cleaning" process will take some shooting, say on the order of 30 to 50 rounds but you'll have to look and see for yourself since the amount of "cleaning" required depends on the amount of fouling in the barrel.

Good morning,
Forrest

verzilli · « **Reply #20 on:** September 07, 2010, 04:12:23 AM »

Now I'm hungry.

BBF · « **Reply #21 on:** September 07, 2010, 06:22:05 AM »

Slightly off the subject but related to lead fouling.
I am down to just one 30-06 rifle which is a Rem 742. I have a number of GC 200 gr bullets in 30 cal. I would like to shoot them in that rifle whether or not the cycle the action.

My question: Will this or can this plug up the gas port?

blhof · « **Reply #22 on:** September 07, 2010, 03:07:50 PM »

The GC should prevent any lead from plugging the gas port, but there's a chance the lube might be forced into it and make a mess, but I've loaded 308 rounds with GC cast and they worked fine in a friends BAR.

BBF · « **Reply #23 on:** September 09, 2010, 06:39:45 AM »

Quote from: blhof on September 07, 2010, 03:07:50 PM

The GC should prevent any lead from plugging the gas port, but there's a chance the lube might be forced ....

Thanks for the info, lube mess I can deal with, poking lead out of the port is another thing.

Dezynco · « **Reply #24 on:** September 11, 2010, 04:28:21 AM »

Quote

My question: Will this or can this plug up the gas port?

Make sure that you are familiar with dissassembly of the gas port and piston assembly. There's very little chance of lead fouling, but the bullet lube could get caked up in the port. I shoot cast lead bullets all the time in my AR-15 and in my old Ruger 44 Carbine.

I once read an article (don't remember where) that reported about a couple of guys running cast lead bullet loads through a Ruger Mini 30 just to see how long they could go without fouling the gas port and piston such that the action would stop cycling reliably. I thing that they reported that after some 5000 - 6000 rounds fired that there was "no noticable degradation in performance". I think they gave up!

Sorry for the off-topic, but I felt Scatterbrain's question needed a follow-up.