Author Topic: Encore Primers - pressure signs or not (Read 630 times)

gusbus · « **on:** December 07, 2003, 04:34:55 PM »

I have an Encore rifle with 3 barrels - 243, 223 AI, and 7 Mag. The 223AI and the 7 Mag both develop extruded firing pin marks on the primer at the bottom of published load ranges, the 243 doesn't seem to do this. Neither does my 15" 45-70 barrel.

Are these pressure signs at abnormally low loads, or do I have my cases sized wrong? I carefully size my brass to be flush with the back of the barrel, with the barrel off the frame, in the Mike Bellm method.

Accuracy is fine in both calibers, I'm just concerned about the primers. No other signs of pressure.

Any advise?

idahop38 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 07, 2003, 07:34:06 PM »

I have a 260 rem barrel that does this also, so I'll watch this and hope someone has the answer.

RonF · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2003, 01:21:19 AM »

Does it do this with factory loads as well? If you don't know, get some factory loads, all of which should be near max in these calibers, I think, and give them a try. If it does it with them, then I'd say you don't have a problem. Are you using a different primer in the .243?

RonF

gusbus · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 2003, 01:44:46 PM »

The 7mag does it with factory loads real bad. Have shot no factory loads in the 243 or the 223 AI.

Possum · « **Reply #4 on:** December 08, 2003, 05:07:54 PM »

My 30.06 barrel does it also when I get 1/2 way to the max load. I am using CCI primers. I just backed off .5gr to make sure I was safe. I'm wondering if it is the firing pin hole being too large on the Encore or maybe the primers themselves??? What primers are you all using?

gusbus · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2003, 01:41:33 AM »

I'm using CCI primers on all. I get the extruded rough firing pin mark just above the low end of published loads. My experience in all has been that if I ignore the firing pin condition and load up to the upper half of published loads that both calibers shoot much better.

Has anyone been able to eliminate this condition by re-sizing longer, or by changing primers?

Muddyboots · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2003, 04:20:25 AM »

Sounds like cartridge case may be too "loose" for headspace. TC isn't the best at having consistent headspacing from some of the posts I've read plus what I have experienced. As such, some of the barrels may be on high side of the headspace go-no go gauging. Real question is whether it does it with neck sizing. Brass should be fire formed to chamber and should provide positive support for shoulder and primer. If you set you sizing die to cam over normally then the headspace will be too loose for your chamber. Are you neck sizing or full length? If full length, you should only push the shoulder back only 1-2 thousands. I've not had the problems encountered in this thread but then again I haven't shot factory. I use the Stoney Point Head N shoulder Headspace gauge to measure fired brass headspace then set sizing die accordingly to push should back 1-2 thousand. Accuracy improved and so did brass life. Lot of persnickity problems that cropped up time to time went away since loads were now fitted perfectly to chamber every time. Primer ignition is more consistent since brass is same headspace, less primer pressure problems for same reason. Neck sizing should do same but I prefer full length for positive loading under every circumstance. Just my preference.

There is one thing that does come to mind that if you dry fire the Encore onto a practice snap cap the firing pin will deform after time cause primer problems like described. I had friend who use to practice a lot that way and he ran into the primer problem you are describing. replaced firing pin and it went away. He no longer practices dry firing on those practice snap cap cartridges.
Muddyboots

gusbus · « **Reply #7 on:** December 13, 2003, 06:06:16 AM »

Muddyboots - thanks for your comments.

My .223AI barrel is a Bullberry. I am using a FL sizing die, I have it set at the point where it leaves the case the longest. I am resizing about half of the neck, likely not even hitting the shoulder. Any deeper and the brass comes out shorter, and the headspace is shorter than the back of the barrel. As it is set, it is as near flush as I can get it, but there is clearly no brass outside of the barrel. It may still be too short and causing this primer problem.

I've gone from camming the die over, all the way to barely touching it, this is the longest I can make it. Any suggestions?

As for the worn firing pin, I haven't done much dry firing, but this frame has thousands of rounds through it with a few dry firings, I was thinking of replacing it anyway. Where is the best place to buy one?