Looking for a civilized AR

[Old Hunter]

So I finally decided to buy myself an AR after all these years. The problem is that all the M4 carbine type that the young fellows at the range are shooting are very unpleasant to be around. I think the noise and muzzle blast are worse than what comes from the guys shooting thier M1 Garands. And those are 30-06. I will be using it as a fun target gun at 100 yards and as my SHTF gun. I will probably put some type of optic on it as time and money allow. I would like to stay under $1200.

I'm looking for suggestions for a kinder, gentler AR. Thanks for your ideas.

[Graybeard]

The Remington R15 is full camo making it look more civilized I suppose. It comes with 18" and 22" barrels rather than the 16" M4 barrel. I guess that makes them some quieter but really the little .223 is a noisy round at best.

They all come with a flat top rail and no sights so you can equip them as you chose. I think you should be able to get one at $1200 or a bit less. You will of course have to add to that some kinda sights or optics prior to being able to use it. I have an EOTech Holosight in full camo on my 18" home defense R15. My M4 is still as it came with the factory irons only.

[Bigeasy]

You want a full size flat top rifle.  Besides Remington, get on-line and take a look at the Bushmaster line.  Something with a 20 / 22 inch barrel, minus a flash hider or muzzle break would be the ticket.  Heavy and Stainless Steel barrels are available.  Actual prices are usually a little lower then retail now, and $1200 will buy you a nice rifle.  Just last week, a friend of mine in CT purchased a Bushmaster full size flat top with detachable handle / sight, spare mag, hard case and sling for a thousand and change.  Mount a decent scope, and possibly a little trigger work if needed, and you would have just what you are looking for.

Larry

[Lloyd Smale]

buddys got one of those 22 inch remingtons and its a tack driver.

The Remington R15 is full camo making it look more civilized I suppose. It comes with 18" and 22" barrels rather than the 16" M4 barrel. I guess that makes them some quieter but really the little .223 is a noisy round at best.

They all come with a flat top rail and no sights so you can equip them as you chose. I think you should be able to get one at $1200 or a bit less. You will of course have to add to that some kinda sights or optics prior to being able to use it. I have an EOTech Holosight in full camo on my 18" home defense R15. My M4 is still as it came with the factory irons only.

[Badnews Bob]

Around here in Kentucky you can pick up a plain jane 22" AR 15 A2 flattop or handle for less than 800 bucks, Very Good rifles for not a lot of money.

[RB1235]

 Of coarse the shorter the barrel the louder. But the flash hider really makes them loud at the shooting range. I imagine it is really no louder, just bleeds out the side and top which makes it seem louder, when sitting all in a row. The last time I shot at the range there was a guy shooting a 300 mag which I thought was very loud. I could feel the pulse off the rifle when he shot, sitting a few benches away from him. Everyone had hearing protection on. I asked before I shot to ensure. I shot my hk91 in 308. It is an 18" with flash hider. The 8 or so people all started cussing. Exclaiming what was that. I think it is just the dispersion of the FH that makes them seem so loud. His rifle has easily twice as loud being a 300 mag. Mine seemed twice as loud as his with the FH.

The AR does not kick out much sound out of the action, so just get one without a FH or take it off if you don't want to be rude at the range.

[drdougrx]

I'm with Bigeasy...I have a bushy natl match target and I love it.  20" and flat top.  I did however install a timney trigger and may remove the front site and put a flat top front site base to lower the height of the scope.  I think you can easily get away with one for less than $1,200.  Closer to $800.

[mcwoodduck]

I have an Armalite M15 A2
Mine has the muzzle break on it.  It is unpleasant to be next to but not bad to be behind.
The breaks redirect the exiting gases and keep the muzzle from walking.
Up until I was able to shoot my upper full auto I wanted to get rid of the break.
I was at the range when a SWAT team member showed up with his M4 nad we were playing with it and could not keep 5 rounds into a 20X20 steel plate at 100 yards.  He has a flash hider.
We installed my 20" upper on his lower and were able to keep whole magizines into the 20 X20 steel gong.
one of my friends noticed the same when I was shooting a 3 gun match and the front of my rifle did not jump and I was ale to make double taps and swing to targets faster.  Next match he had the same upper as I have.
Knowing what I know now I would buy the same rifle.  Maybe a flat top if I wanted to go with a red dot.  But solid stock and 20" barrel with a good break
Sounds like you are shooting in military rifle matches.  You can build or buy a long sight radius target rifle with the bloop tube that moves your front sight out 10 to 12 inches and gives you a sight radius of a 30" barrel but with only a 20" barrel.

[SD Handgunner]

I think you should be able to find a lot of options out there to suit your needs. Yes indeed the shorter the barrel the louder the muzzle blast will be. In addition the ammo you use will also make a difference in muzzle blast. I have found it to be generally true that Ammo loaded with Ball Powder will be louder than ammo loaded with the same burning rate of Extruded Powder. Granted there are exceptions to this and one such being Winchester W-748 seems to be quieter.

Personally I would be looking at either a Remington R-15 or a Bushmaster V Match or Predator or Varminter if this AR is to be scoped. As has been stated the Remington R-15 and the Bushmaster V Match can be had in several different barrel lengths, where as the Bushmaster Predator has a 20" Barrel while the Bushmaster Varminter has a 24" Barrel. 

In regards to Flash Hidgers and or Compensators. My Bushmaster 16" M4 Optics Ready Carbine came with an A2 Flash Hider. I learned a valuable lesson about how much blast comes off of the side of the Flash Hider. While on patrol one night I came across a Skunk about a half mile outside of town. Well if left alone these skunks have a habit of eventually coming into town to take advantage of all the Cat Food people leave out for stray cats (which I never have understood but that is another story). I lit up the skunk with my spotlight and made ready with the Bushmaster leaning out the drivers window. At the shot there was a hell of a flash and then everything went dark. Yep the blast from the Flash Hider shredded the head of my spotlight.

Next I tried a DPMS Levang Linear Compensator. This Comp has no holes on the sides but rather has a series of 6 holes around the muzzle so all the blast is directed straight forward. I could not detect any noticable difference in muzzle blast when using this Linear Compensator vs nothing on the muzzle at all. However the DPMS Levang Linear Compensator changed my point of impact at 100 yards by 2 1/2" and caused my groups to more than double in size. In the end I replaced it with a simple Knurled Thread Protector and have been pleased with the outcome.

Other than sights I feel the most important items an AR has to have to wring the most accuracy out of a given gun are a good trigger (on which there is a great debate as to which is the best) and a good free float tube. By replacing the Factory Trigger on my Bushmaster with a JP Enterprises Adjustable Trigger, Speed Hammer & Springs and replacing the Plastic M4 Handguards with an Aluminum Free Float Tube got my groups under an inch at 100 yards. My DPMS Panther Bull 20 has also received a JP Enterprises Adjustable Trigger, Speed Hammer & Springs and came with an Aluminum Free Float Tube. With it's preferred load it will put 5 rounds into 5/8" Groups at 100 yards (I just can't seem to break the 1/2" barrier).

Good luck with your quest. If I were you, now after getting a couple different AR's I would handle as many as I could to find the one that has the right features, weight and balance for your needs.

Larry

[jmayton]

Get rid of the flash hider.

[Varmintnut260]

I would look into rock river arms. I will admit through experience it takes them a while. The reason being, they make your gun after you order it. You can pick and choose what options are on the gun. I bought an elite car a4 from them with a winter trigger guard and chrome-lined barrel and it cost just over $1000.

This came with a removable "tactical" carry handle, I removed the front sight post and put a flattop gas block on it and the different forearm. This could have all been installed at the factory and still be fairly cheap. They have multiple weight and length barrels to choose from and in different calibers as well.

[equinoxbuilders]

Old Hunter,

According to your post, I'd have to agree with Graybeard & Lloyd.
I actually have a similar issue.
I'm currently saving for a R25 or LR308.  But since I'd probably be taking mine in the N.E. woods for whitetail/black bear/moose. It probably would be best for me to pay the premium and get the Rem. for the more sporting look.(ease any nervous yuppy hunters I might run into while stalking).

[notnodak]

Here's what I did to get a civilized AR. I bought a receiver for $80, a kit for $460, scope and rings for $160 and a $20 bi-pod. I'll be painting it for Varmint hunting but when it's all said and done I'll have $700 into a nice shooting AR 223 with a 20" SS bull barrel, Decent Simmons 6-20x44 scope Weaver Picatinny rings, 3 Magpul 20rnd mags, 5lbs trigger and  the knowledge and pride that I did it myself. Do what you want but building is the best bang for the buck. Even if you add $200 for a killer trigger you will still be WAY under your budget.

[targshooter]

About 4 years ago I put a full size flat top AR15 derivative together for the son. I used the Armalite pre-assembled upper with the fixed front sight (they seem to have sales that are quite stupendous every Christmas season), a Superior Arms lower (assembled) and a fixed rear sight from Yankee Hill Machine. The entire rifle cost me $635. This rifle has the 20 inch barrel. It has been one of the most dependable AR rifles I've owned. Accurate also, as when I scoped and shot it the groups were hovering at 1.5 MOA at 200 yards with my 55 grain reloads. 

[redmist]

I have just purchased a Rock River ar. I bought the 20 "SS and it is a tak driver. I load LC brass, Win Primers, 50 gr v-max, 25 gr rl-7
I am very happy with results. I shoot Prairie dogs out to 300 yds.

[redmist]

CDNN had the ar for less than 900.00 last weekend. CDNN in Abalen Tx You might still ber able to buy at that price. Good Luck !

Redmist

[Swampman]

I'm pretty sure the Remington is made by Bushmaster.  My vote goes for the AR-15A2.

[dukkillr]

buddys got one of those 22 inch remingtons and its a tack driver.

The Remington R15 is full camo making it look more civilized I suppose. It comes with 18" and 22" barrels rather than the 16" M4 barrel. I guess that makes them some quieter but really the little .223 is a noisy round at best.

They all come with a flat top rail and no sights so you can equip them as you chose. I think you should be able to get one at $1200 or a bit less. You will of course have to add to that some kinda sights or optics prior to being able to use it. I have an EOTech Holosight in full camo on my 18" home defense R15. My M4 is still as it came with the factory irons only.

I have one too, and it is.  I've not an AR expert by an stretch of the imagination, but I do like that gun for my uses.  Mostly it's predators and varmits.  Not a lot of wannabe Rambo stuff, although it would probably do that too.  I'd never owned a tactical style rifle before it, and I was missing out.

[kctibs]

I'm pretty sure the Remington is made by Bushmaster.  My vote goes for the AR-15A2.

Remington is made by DPMS. Maybe Bushmaster is owned or owns one them or both, I am not sure. It's hard to keep up with all of the companies buying and selling each other. I do know the R-15 is made by DPMS though.

[Swampman]

http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2007/12/15/cerberus-acquires-dpms/

[bilmac]

So what if a guy is looking for a civilized AR that is also capable of humane deer killing. Don't tell me that the 223 is fine, I've done that, besides 22s aren't legal in Wyo. How about prices, can you get one of the larger calibers and still keep the cost down?

[jmayton]

Get a 6.8spc.

[SHOOTALL]

Get a 6.8spc.

yep !

[SHOOTALL]

So I finally decided to buy myself an AR after all these years. The problem is that all the M4 carbine type that the young fellows at the range are shooting are very unpleasant to be around. I think the noise and muzzle blast are worse than what comes from the guys shooting thier M1 Garands. And those are 30-06. I will be using it as a fun target gun at 100 yards and as my SHTF gun. I will probably put some type of optic on it as time and money allow. I would like to stay under $1200.

I'm looking for suggestions for a kinder, gentler AR. Thanks for your ideas.

Old hunter , if you live in a state with gun shows you might try one for your gun. Often you can buy a mil. spec lower reciver and a mil. spec complete upper/lower parts kit . Here in Va. there is a guy who sells the uppers at the shows who will put it all togather for ya at no extra cost .

[Kent]

Old Hunter what did you end up doing? I was kind of in the same dilema several months ago and ended up buying a CMMG piston model. The AR 15 can be just about anything you want it to be with all the parts available. I love the telescoping stock that comes pretty much standard on new rifles. I like it full length, then I can shorten it in 1 second to what my wife likes. My former Marine son got a hold of it after I meagerly had it sighted in with the iron sights and promptly shot 5 rounds at a 3 in target and all 5 landed within the 3 inch circle at 25 yards. I extended the target to 100 yards and he landed all on the paper at 100 yards using standard 8X11 inch paper. I want to get a scope so I can see that far!
Kent

[JWP58]

So do you not wear ear plugs or muffs?

[SHOOTALL]

So do you not wear ear plugs or muffs?

WHAT ?