Author Topic: Cratered Receiver ???? Got it back today (Read 1709 times)

gjdykeman · « **on:** August 17, 2010, 02:13:08 AM »

What is this? I originally thought it was an insert around the firing pin. Not! No failure to fires, or other issues. What is this caused by? It is exactly the size of a primer pocket. Large pistol/large rifle. Is there a solution here? The picture is a bit fuzzy but you can clearly see the crater. I don't like this.

wreckhog · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2010, 03:01:55 AM »

There was a recent response by quick that said that was a cracked receiver.

Crow Buster · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2010, 04:10:51 AM »

Can't see too well from your picture, but it looks similar to what I'm in the process of dealing with right now. I posted some picures of mine in this thread:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,212889.0.html

I called H&R, they were guessing either soft receiver or very excessive headspace. Either way it needed to be inspected. I'm in Michigan, about 45min from Williams Gun Sight. That was the only option H&R gave me. I took the gun there and explained my conversation with H&R to the clerk. He returned from the back room about ten minutes later and said their gunsmith said not to worry about it, it's normal. I asked the counter guy (because you don't actually deal directly with the smith) if they looked at it under good light and magnification. He couldn't answer. I then asked how a brass case head could dent a hardened breech face and he said it couldn't, I then replied EXACTLY. The counter guy was starting to catch on. I pointed out the crescent shape cut from the primer pocket and he said okay let's send it back. Essentially going to Williams (which was the only option H&R gave me) added a layer of stupidness between me and H&R. He wrote up the return and I made sure he noted I wanted my old barrel fitted to the new frame.

I called H&R last week to confirm the gun had arrived, each time the answer was it wasn't in their system yet, but could be in receiving. On Friday, I called again and it still wasn't there. I had no tracking number since Williams handled the return. I got an e-mail about 30 minutes later from the H&R customer service rep. He contacted Williams to find out what happened, and they were still sitting on it. Long story short, I'll call Williams today to get a tracking number and make sure they actually ship the rifle. It's been two weeks since I took in my rifle. Would have been so much simpler if I didn't have to go through an "authorized warranty center". I'll keep everyone posted on what happens with this rifle, but I'm expecting they'll replaced the whole gun, not just the receiver. There goes my 1 in 12 barrel that shoots .5MOA.

SORRY, after coming back and re-reading this I realize I'm pretty close to a thread hijacking, I was still a little hot. Bottom line, my gun will be at H&R in a couple of days and I'll let you know what they're going to do about the issue.

CB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2010, 05:58:24 AM »

That's too bad they don't give you an option on returning it directly to Ilion, I'd sure press that issue if working with any factory firearm(as opposed to a home fitted barrel), they normal send a prepaid UPS shipping label for return to Ilion if you ask, having to rely on someone else to return it is the pits.

Tim

Spanky · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2010, 07:02:38 AM »

Call H&R and explain to them that the thought of thier product possibly blowing up in your face causing you great physical injury or death makes you very uneasy. Then explain to them that you have a lawyer friend who is itching to get on the "sue the gunmakers" bandwagon if they don't make things right. I'm bettin' they'll tell you to send it directly to them and they'll take care of it quickly.

Spanky

bikerbeans · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2010, 07:57:21 AM »

Gj,

What caliber is the rifle with the crater and what are the first 2 letters of the serial#?

Crow,

what is the first two letters of the serial# of your bad receiver?

thanks

BB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2010, 08:13:54 AM »

Crow's is a 2005.

Tim

Quote from: Crow Buster on August 04, 2010, 02:10:10 AM

The gun is 2005 (serial #HV).

Crow Buster · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2010, 09:20:08 AM »

Quote from: Spanky on August 17, 2010, 07:02:38 AM

Call H&R and explain to them that the thought of thier product possibly blowing up in your face causing you great physical injury or death makes you very uneasy. Then explain to them that you have a lawyer friend who is itching to get on the "sue the gunmakers" bandwagon if they don't make things right. I'm bettin' they'll tell you to send it directly to them and they'll take care of it quickly.

Easy there Spanky, H&R hasn't done anything wrong by me yet. They listened to my problem and agreed somebody needs to look at it. I'm just not very happy with their outside service provider. I understand their desire to move cost outside and potentially cut some of the unnecessary factory returns. I've just been very disappointed with most of the gunsmithing that I've encountered. Every other skilled trade out there requires training/testing, and usually an apprenticeship to become licensed. Not so with gunsmithing, seems like every knuckle head with a file wants to hang up his shingle. Don't mean to offend any 'smiths on the board, just relating my personal experiences. I brought in a potentially dangerous defect, and they tried to send my on my way with a pat on the back.

CB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2010, 10:02:00 AM »

You're sure right on the bad gunsmith issue, there have been several complaints here in the last few months of unacceptable work done by "professional gunsmiths", at least two bad crowns, and a poor rechamber by three different smiths. $:-\$

Tim

Spanky · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2010, 11:53:24 AM »

I'm not sayin' to actually get a lawyer after 'em... just threaten 'em with it and that should do the trick. You want to cut out the middleman if at all possible and have the factory fix the problem themselves. You definitely don't want that frame to come apart in your face and neither do they.

Spanky

gjdykeman · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2010, 12:54:02 PM »

This is a NY-receiver. Purchased new at Gander Mountain 11-25-09, 223 bull barrel. Although, i have fired at least 1000 rounds through this of all different calibers. All hand loads. 6 different barrels. Never a max load, maybe some bad fits. The barrel would shoot loose and I stopped went home and fixed it. This could have been there for a while but redoing the shim on the 270 barrel is when I noticed it. STILL UNDER WARRANTY FROM GANDER. GOING BACK TOMORROW.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2010, 01:21:51 PM »

Thanks for the info. guys. So a pair of 223s, a 2005 & 2007, with a receiver problem. I have a 2005 Ultra Hunter 223, I guess time to pull the barrel and take a look. For what it is worth, my 223 Ultra had a loose fit and headspace issues when I got it new the first of this year. I corrected the problem, but probably shot 200 or 300 rounds before I fixed it. We shall see. $:-\$

BB

Crow Buster · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2010, 01:42:21 PM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on August 17, 2010, 01:21:51 PM

I have a 2005 Ultra Hunter 223, I guess time to pull the barrel and take a look.

It was very hard to actually see the problem. I could see the depression in the primer pocket area, but thought it was probably just a casting defect. I took a few pictures and moved on. It wasn't until I had downloaded the pictures to my computer that I could actually see the problem well enough to realize I had an issue. You'll need strong lighting and probably some magnification.

CB

trotterlg · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2010, 02:23:15 PM »

This is at least the third one here with the same problem. First was several years ago, clearly cracked and pushed in about 1/4 way around the primer area, I don't recall the cal it was in, then a couple of weeks ago, a near clone to the earlier failure, and now yours. I think there is probably some problem here, the breach face is not very thick at this point as you can see by the length a fireing pin has to be to reach through the hole. The area that is cracked is about the diameter of the fireing pin body and thus the bore the fireing pin rided in. Larry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** August 17, 2010, 02:31:47 PM »

I went back and tracked Henry1's 243 issue with the defective frame, the one Larry linked in Crow Buster's thread trying to find out how it was resolved, it appears he sold the barrel and never sent the frame in, he used the barrel on another frame, but I only found posts that indicated he still hadn't sent it in for repair/replacement, his was bought "new" in 2007, but he never said what year it was made.

FWIW, I've checked all forty of my SB2 frames, and the worst I can find is a brass stain which comes right off with solvent, and the smear from the ejectors.

Tim

The Hermit · « **Reply #15 on:** August 17, 2010, 05:15:53 PM »

Quick, ole buddy, would you mind if I checked all FORTY of your SB2 frames for ya? Maybe even test firing, for safety's sake of course.

The Hermit

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** August 17, 2010, 06:57:06 PM »

bikerbeans · « **Reply #17 on:** August 18, 2010, 03:51:28 AM »

I guess Quick is quick, already checked 40 frames and I haven't even motiviated myself to even check one.

BB

gjdykeman · « **Reply #18 on:** August 20, 2010, 01:28:53 PM »

I think I am going to get screwed on this. Took it back to Gander. The "gunsmith" stated, I have seen this on a few rifles before but this is the first H&R I have had to deal with. Also my Warranty was for two years. I stated that H&R's warranty was two years and Ganders was 1 year after that. They looked it up on the NEF site and couldn't find any info. Just dumb. Bad vibes from the start. The rifle has Chiote surviver stocks on it. He said he had to ship it complete and they would probably send back a new rifle. I hope I get my stock set back. The other issue is this, it is a 24" bull barrel, 1 in 9 twist, Not available any more. I got the impression he didn't think it was an issue, just a bad heat treatment. Not. The "gunsmith" issue has reared it's ugly head again. I WILL get my new three year warranty when, if, I get this back. In the mean time I have an older SB1 frame with wood on it, 12g, 410g, hand made muzzleloader, and 45 LC. I have other guns to use but I am a handyholic. I had big plans for the 270 and 223 this fall. I guess I should have more than 1 SB2 receiver. Oh well I do have a S&W classic hunter in 41 mag. 8" at 100y.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** August 20, 2010, 01:48:45 PM »

H&R's warranty is in the owner's manual, it is 2yrs, but I've never seen them refuse repair on an obvious defect or a loose barrel long after the warranty has expired, sometime 10-15yrs. They may possibly be able to fit your barrel to the new frame, so I wouldn't give up on that barrel, they've done that before, they've(Ilion) even fitted a second hand barrel to a frame sent in by a member here. I wouldn't give up on the 24" bull barrel if you mean the 223, it's available on 2 different Ultra Varmint rifles.

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/documents/manuals/new/Handi-Rifle.pdf

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/hunter.asp

Crow Buster · « **Reply #20 on:** August 20, 2010, 06:25:21 PM »

Don't have any update on what H&R will do with your receiver as mine just got there today. It has a work order number, but nobody has had a chance to look at it yet. It didn't look like my request to keep my original barrel made the transition from Williams. The service rep added this info to the record for me today, so hopefully I'll see it again.

On a side note, I asked about getting an accessory barrel while it was in for service. They would love to, BUT they don't have any barrels. He said the only barrels available right now as accessories were odd balls like a stainless 30-06, or a 270. He said 35 Whelen (which is what I really want) is back in production, but they can't keep up with production demand, so it will be a very long time before it can be had as an add on. Same with 44 mag.

CB

gjdykeman · « **Reply #21 on:** September 15, 2010, 03:32:52 PM »

The report from H&R stated "The face was miss-cut on the receiver" Replaced receiver, fitted barrel, re-attached stocks. CBA receiver. 3 year warranty from Gander. I am satisfied. 26 days door to door. The face on the new receiver is as smooth as a baby's butt. Actually looks polished. Locks up tight, absolutely no movement without the forearm. I have to re-install the goodies and will zero and shoot on Sat. I did purchase another receiver in the mean time and will use it for projects and other stuff this one is for the 223 only. 47/70 muzzleloader on a topper frame along with the 45LC, 270 on the older receiver along with the 12g smooth bore slugger. The older receiver has a trigger job and some hammer work. All sited and ready to hunt. I hope to get a turkey this fall with the 223. It's the hunt.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** September 15, 2010, 03:36:44 PM »

Glad to see they took care of you, both Gander and H&R, hope all goes well at the range.

Tim

bikerbeans · « **Reply #23 on:** September 15, 2010, 04:04:10 PM »

George,

Glad they stepped up and did a nice job for you. Man, centerfire rifle for turkey, you folks in PA have all the luck.

BB

gcrank1 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 16, 2010, 07:47:02 AM »

I wonder if the Gander 'gunsmith' learned anything........

av-doctor · « **Reply #25 on:** September 16, 2010, 11:16:01 AM »

pa law states,
fall
single projectile or shot no larger than no.4 lead or no.2 steel
spring
shotgun or bow only

gjdykeman · « **Reply #26 on:** September 17, 2010, 02:55:07 PM »

Range report; 223 MOA at 50y, 55g FMJ and 64g JSP. Ready to go. Fired the muzzleloader on the used frame, 30 times w/blackpowder substitute, 50 to 150g, pellets. No issues with the frame at all. The hand made muzzleloader didn't do it. That frame was bad. The gist of what I understand is that mark was cut in the frame when it was made.

and I never noticed.

. Oh well it is fixed now. The muzzleloader shoots like crap. I may have to use regular 45/70 load data and powder to get it right. Then we will see how the frame holds up. Really short on time, 16 Oct Doe season.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #27 on:** September 17, 2010, 05:11:31 PM »

George,

Have you tried in your 45/70 MZ some 45 caliber muzzleloader saboted bullets; 40 caliber bullet in a 45 caliber sabot? T/C sells some that are fairly cheap, at least for MZ sabots. These will be lighter than what you have been shooting but maybe the sabot will fit the bore a little better and help with accuracy. Good luck in Turkey and Deer seasons.

BB