New FA Owner

[Old 454]

Well I finally bought my first FA. I have allways wanted one but never had the cash for one.
I was at my LGS at the shooting range and had finished shooting for the day and wondered over to the display cases and my jaw just about hit the ground, when I seen a beautiful FA 454 casull.
It had a price tag of 1900 on it, I ask to see it and the owner of the shops son took it out and handed it to me. I tell ya love at first sight, I inquired if it was Premier grade ot Field grade, he stated he didn't know. I dickered him down to 1600.00 plus tax threw 50.00 down to hold it and then went to my credit union to tap into the discresionary funds.went the next day and picked it up. all I can say is wow.
Just by happen chance I went out to breakfast the next day befor hitting the range and was talkin to a few of my buddies when a gentalman sat near us and I could tell he was listening in on my conversation, When I mentioned the FA 454 I just aquired he said" ahh you bought that at the LGS" I said yes and he says I am glad it went to some one who will injoy it, as I own 14 FA's in 454 not including .475 lindbough, 480 ruger .500 WE and numerous other ones, I belive he stated he had a total of damn near 30 FA's. I was envyious.
But any way the reason for this post is I am going to hand load for my 454 .
I have brand new Starline brass, and I bought 200 Cast preformance 325 grain heat treated solids plain based.
4lbs of H110 and CCI small rifle magnum primers. I hand load for 9MM,.357,40S&W, 41Mag, 44Mag, 45 Colt,45acp and now will add the 454 to my list.
What I need is some good solid reloading data for the 454 with H110 and also some decent "plinker" loads with other powders. I found out the other day reading on this forum about Lil Gun powder being a no no.
So help a new FA owner out with some of your pet loads, weather they be God like or a mouse fart all are welcome.
 
thank you for taking the time to read my ramblings and thank you for any and all help.
 
 
 
 
 
 

[doghawg]

Congratulations on your FA! For me the novelty of full house H110/296 loads wore off rather quickly. My deer hunting loads are 300 gr. gas checked cast bullets over 22 gr. of  2400. I've also had good luck with Blue Dot, HS6 and Unique but one surprise for me was the 250 gr. XTP over 10.5 gr. of 231 for around 1060 fps. Both of my mod 83's wear optics. The beauty of a .454 in my opinion is the versatility.  You can go from .45 Colt horsepower all the way up to dragon slayers. Enjoy!

[greenrivers]

Old 454, congrats on entering a completely new phase of handgun use. The Freedom Arms is a completely differant experiance to anything you have had in handguning. The quality and accuracy are outstanding. I can not help you with your load as I use 240 gr. XTP's and 300 gr gc home cast, but will look for a post on how you make out with the plain base. Good luck.

[Old 454]

well not much luck with these Cast preformance 325 grain plain based.
I worked trying to hand load one on a winchester and Starline brass, the dasrn bullets are just to long, if I seat the in the canalure the finnished cartridge sitabout 40 thousands of an in to far out on the cylinder and the gate will not close, the COAL on this finished cartridge is 2.760 and I have to get it below 2.735 to get it to seat in the cylinder and the loading gate to close. Now if I seat the bullet deeper into the case I am to far past the canalure and just smashing the lead above the canalure.
So I thought hmm, must be I need to trim the cases, well the cases were all spot on for trim to length, cases were perfect.
So now I am stuck with 200 of these cast preformance 325 Gr. bullets. and need to go and find/order some 300 Gr. GC bullets that are not so long.
If any of you all have any recomendations I sure would like to here it.
And thank you for the nice welcome to the boards

[benny123]

Congratulations on your purchase.

Just yesterday I shot my FA 454 along with a few others. I hadn't made bullets for the 454 but I knew I had some previously bought ammo in the trunk.

It was HSMs "Bear Load" . The cast bullet was 320 or 325 grain. Though FA doesn't publish loads heavier than 300 grain, I didn't think there was a concern with cartridge OAL when loaded. I can't say how much room there was from the face of the cylinder, but, even if a little bullet pull was encountered, I wouldnt have been worried about the cylinder tying up the action. I was surprised at the range the cylinder allowed, This is a big concern for me in the 500WE. Many jacketed bullets (400grain) technically fit, but end up being unusable for this reason. If I buy cast, I always have to be cognizant of the crimp-to-nose length.

That box was a 50. I think I left a few in there. Let me see if I can pull the bullet. It'll give you an idea of a suitable canneulre range for this size bullet.


10:45mst:

I pulled the 325gr. The bottom of the groove to the nose measured .410 .Other board members, please chime in if this number appears to be wrong.

Id be bummed if I had a new gun and bullets but couldn't shoot it. Howabout using 45LC brass, and using bottom end load data with powders that are assoc. with mod velocity while having pressure in 30-40k range? The difference in brass length of the LC and C , I think should be sufficient. If not, I think, that bullet should be categorized as "long nose "and really more applicable to lever actions as most revolver cylinders aren't long enough to chamber it.

If you choose to shoot LC,  ensure you clean any fouling out of the chambers after you shoot it to avoid the cylinder getting etched by future 454 rounds.

...and if you need some bullets to shoot your FA let me know. Pretty sure I only have the XTP Mags though--mostly 240.  Just spot me $ for shipping

[Old 454]

Ok I just got out my micrometer and some of these Cast Preformance 325 grain LFNPB .452
 
Length of the bullet is from smallest .822 to the longest at .827, this was 10 bullets I took randomly from a box of 100
Top of the bullet to the cantalure on the same 10 bullets are .376 to .380
Length of the bullet from top of the cantalure to the bottom of the same 10 bullets are .429 to .431
I pulled a bullet from a Winchester Platinum Supreme 260 grain HP and the length of that bullet is .745
the top of the same bullet to to the cantalure is .383
And the cantalure to bottom of the bullet is .349
Now I relize this i9s two diffrent bullets in composition and weight but that same winchester bullet has an COAL of 2.765 and seat perfect in the chambers.
I also have some reloads from a company call Precision reloading that I bought a box of 50 454's for 20 bucks, I have shot there reloads befor and while they are ok in semi auto's I never like there revolver loads, but they were made with brand new starline brass and the bullet is a 255 gr. TMJ FP. so I bought them to pull the bullets and keep them and the cases and file 13 the powder. I thought 20 bucks was a deal for a brand new primed cases along with the bullets.
I might take you up on that deal for some bullets send me a PM, that is if you really want to part with them, times are tuff for all shooters for components and factory ammo, and this was not my point of this thread lol.
So other than having a buddy of mine recast these bullets to some thing i could use I was thinking I could really down load the to say about 1000 FPS and just crimp them above the cantalure, but I am not really thrilled to do that.
any opinions?
 
 
 

[benny123]

My measurement has got to be wrong based on your top-and-bottom range. It's an '83, not the '97 so we're not dealing with different cylinder lengths.


Heading out for a while but perhaps some of the more experienced guys will note proper dimensions. Sorry I couldn't help

[Old 454]

Tis ok Mr.Benny, any advice that is sound is allways welcome.
 
Thank you again 
I just talked to my friend and we are going slug the barrel and check his diffrent .45 molds and I got some powder I cant use and see if we can't do some horse trading

[paul105]

If your COAL measurement is correct, then your problem is not cartridge length, but diameter of the bullet above the crimp groove. 

My FA .454 cylinder is 2.790" (which would be the absolute maximum COAL before the bullet protruded from the front of the cylinder and leave no room for any bullet movement).  I have a couple of loaded rounds that are 2.750" OAL that fit the cylinder normally and still have some room before they would extend beyond the face of the cylinder.

The cylinder throats on FA 83s are very tight, and on some guns the transition from chamber to throat is very abrupt (My late 80s Field Grade wouldn't chamber FA factory ammo consistently).  I suspect this is your problem.

You have two permanent choices.
1.  Use a bullet with a .451" diameter (which might create leading problems), or:
2.  Call Freedom Arms, ask for John and explain the problem to him.  I suspect he'll get you to send your cylinder in so they can chamfer the chamber/throat transition.   I had this done to my gun -- problem solved.

Freedom arms usually turns these types of jobs around very quickly.   

If you don't want to sent the cyl to FA, you can buy a cheap lee bullet sizer and reduce the diameter of the bullets you currently have, or:

Although not optimum, you can deep seat you bullets (make sure to reduce powder charge accordingly) and crimp above the crimp groove on the ogive, or as mentioned above use .45 Colt cases (and thoroughly clean the chambers to prevent etching). 

In the long run, Item 2. above will make your life a lot easier when loading for this gun.

Paul

[benny123]

Initially, I didnt think the issue was that typical .452 bullets simply wouldn't chamber.

I believe P105 and the factory fix makes sense, but isn't there an easy way to test this beforehand

Howabout just dropping a bullet from back to front in the cylinder?

Sounds shoddy, but it seems to be a good general indicator of whether there is an undersize issue not allowing .452 bullets to chamber.

I pulled my cylinder out of the '83 and dropped a the H .452s in. Slight finger pressure was needed to release them. The cast 325 gr. bullet, HSM loaded, required a little more pressure but nothing that felt like a struggle.

A proof of the concept seems to translate to old454s cast bullets getting stuck without the bullet exiting the front of the cylinder

Old454, what's your take on this?

[paul105]

Here's a post I made in 2008 that relates directly to this topic.

Humbo,

I have a .454 that I bought about 20 years ago.  I struggled with it off and on over the years due to what I thought was tight throats.  FA Factory 300gr ammo had to be forced the last bit into the chambers with heavy finger pressure.  A year ago (yeah, I have a high tolerance for pain -- actually just lazy) I needed some work done to my M97 and mentioned the tight throats on the .454 to John at FA.  He had me send the .454 cyl in along with the 97.  When it came back the tight throat problem was fixed.  The original throats were extremely abrupt (no chamfer/taper at the rear of the throat).  From what I remember, FA chamfered/tapered the lead into the throats, but didn't open them up.  The throats will let a .452 bullet pass but not a .453, so call them .4525.  We slugged the bore, and it is right at .453.

So, my first suggestion is to see if a .452 jacketed bullet will pass thru the cyl throats from the rear of the cylinder.  If not, see if they will pass thru from the face of the cylinder – if they do, you may have the same problem that I had.  If not, you’ll probably have to use cast bullets sized .451 just so they will chamber.



FWIW,

Paul

[Old 454]

Paul105 is correct, my friend and I sluged the barrel and found it to be just a tad under .452 the bullets that I have were to large in diameter not length.
We swaged the bullets out in 452 and made a dummy round with them, they would compleatly seat in the cylinder if you gave them a little help in pushing them in.
So we swaged one down to .451 and made a dummy round and low and behold they sat perfectly into the cylinder chambers.
I also tryed some of his bullets made with hornady 300 grain .452 xtp's and they fit perfect in the chambers.
So we swaged out the rest of the Cast Preformance bullets to .451 and I will shoot these but I will not buy these again.
If I continue to have problems with lead bullets I will do as Paul105 suggests and send the cylinder to FA to be chamfered.
 
I thank you all for all your time and petients with my meandering lol.
What my friend and I did to determain what the problem was , was to make a dummy round with the unswaged bullet then we sooted it up on a candle and chambered it in the cylinder and found where it was hanging up and it was on the ring on the front of the cylinder.
The FA I bought was also a late 80's model, as a matter of fact it was made on 4-4-89 and was never fired till I bought it. There wasn't a scratch any were on it the grips were in perfect shape I belive the powder rings on the front of the cylinder was from factory test firing.
I shot some winchester 260 gr.platinum tips and some Barnes xtb's? they all fit perfect in the cylinder and after firing they droped right out.
So thank you all for leading me on the right path

[HGunner]

Congratulations on your new FA!  I had the same problem with Cast Performance 265 grain WFNGC in my old FA 454 but it chambers their 335 grain WLNGC with no problem and shoots them very accurately.  I haven't had any problem with jacketed bullets.