.45-70 shorty

[steve@357maximum.com]

Has anyone had success trimming .45-70 cases down to 1.625" to make a legal IN deer cartridge?  Don't get me wrong, I am still sold on the .357 Maximum for Indiana Deer Hunting.  It's just that I recently acquired a beautiful Ruger No. 1 in .45-70 and I would love to take a deer with it this year.  Using full length cases I've been unsuccessful shooting hard cast Lyman 420 grain .459" bullets with light to midrange loads (5-8" at 100 yds).  However the first groups I shot with 300 gr. JHP's at approximately 2000 fps grouped under 1 inch for the first 3-shots at 100 yds.  Any detailed loading techniques for the cut down cases would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve

[Dinny]

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,218435.0.html

[Hank in Indiana]

I've been shooting this cartridge for 2 years. It works fine. The 300g are running 1800 fps and producing 2"-3" groups at 100yds. In order to crimp the case you will need to grind or cut .480" off the crimp die. Since the case is tapered You need to neck size the case with a 45 acp die. I started working up loads from the 45LC data but switched to a fast rifle powder loading reduced trapdoor loads. The shorter COL will not cycle in my Marlin with more than one cartridge in the mag tube. With one in the chamber and one in the mag it cycles properly.
This technique works with an 1881 Marlin 40-60 caliber also. Just neck size with a 41 mag die.
Next year the Max case length probably will be 1.8".  These are much more accurate and over 2000 fps.

[steve@357maximum.com]

Hank,

Thanks a lot for the info.  This is exactly what I was looking for.  I have a few specific questions for you if you don't mind. 
1) Are you shooting 300 gr. jacketed bullets and crimping into the cannelure?
2) When you neck size with the 45ACP die, how far down the case are you sizing?
3) With equal powder charges, how does the velocity on the short case compare to the standard case?
4) Are you willing to share your specific load data?

In the standard length cases, my Ruger No. 1 shoots very well with H4198 and Hornady 300 gr. JHP's.  Sunday I was able to achieve a 100 yard 5-shot group at .950".  The load chrono'd at 2105 fps.  I know the short version will not do this, but if I could get 2-3" groups as you have,  I would be confident enough to try it deer hunting.

Thanks again,

Steve

[Hank in Indiana]

1) 300 g. Yes. Originally I crimped in the canalure but later seated the bullet long and used a slight crimp. This was to add a little more powder and didn't seem to hurt the accuracy. Velocity went from 1450 to 1550 with H110/w296 powder. Later I went to H335 and velocity went to 1800. The H335 was dirty and didn't burn well so I went to IMR 4198. Much cleaner and better burn.
2) I neck size approx .300". I made a collar that fits over the cartridge in the shellholder that allows uniformity. A stack of 1/2" washers will work.
3) I didn't try equal powders.
4) Specific data won't work for you. My loads are based on my reloading equip and weapons. I started with 45 long colt data and eventually got into trapdoor data. You have a chrony. The first signs of pressure will be deviations in velocity. If your velocity is deviating consistantly 30-50 fps then jumps to 60-80 fps. your pressure is beginning to spike. If you wait until you flatten or soot primers or look for bulges in your cases you are way too late.
I found some 350 g. bullets with 2 canalures. These are working well with Imr 4198 powder. CCI benchrest primers are most accurate. WW and federal work well but have different points of impact. I also started some work on the 1.8" case. These are much more accurate and 2K vel. WW cases have a higher volumn.
 

[steve@357maximum.com]

Hank,
Thanks for the additional information, it is very helpful.  I had my seating/crimping die turned down today and plan on making up some starting loads for testing this weekend.
Good Shooting,
Steve

[Hank in Indiana]

Steve
PM sent.