Correct Lead?

[kmittleman]

Hi all,


I want to become better at bird hunting - how far should my lead be? I'm guessing Dove will be the thing I will hunt the most next Sept.

-Kevin

[dukkillr]

2 feet, unless it's more, or less.

How can we answer this question?  The lead is determined by how fast something is moving, how far away it is, and it's angle relative to you.  Go shoot some sporting clays or even skeet to work on lead.  Have someone good go with you and stand behind you.  It's not a perfect science but most of the time I can stand behind someone and tell them if they were infront or behind a target they just shot at. 

A recent article in the SCI magazine suggested you should shoot 2-3 THOUSAND rounds before you will be a complete shooter.  Frankly, that matches my experience and further explains why so many people are not very good.  That amounts to approximately 10 cases of shells, or more than a lifetime of shooting for most, particularly weekend warriors and fair-weather pretty boys (and girls).

So my advice, as with all things hunting related, is get out there, and get after it.  Good luck, and let us know how you do.

[Graybeard]

As has been said already there is no answer except practice shooting and experience. No two shots in hunting are ever the same. Oh if it were only that easy.

[south_river_redneck]

I don't know much, but I've put over three cases of shells through my little 20guage 870 hunting quail, pheasants, crows and clays, and the only way to get better is to keep opening boxes.  No matter how frustrating a miss may be, it was always for a reason, and if you keep your head cool and try to replay it in your mind sometimes you can cure your own problems.  also, you can sometimes watch the wad fall after you shoot, which is sometimes telling of where your shot went.  The best amount of lead is the one that results in a dead bird! Just keep practicing!

[Graybeard]

I imagine I've fired that many rounds at each skeet target likely many times over and far more at trap and sporting clays and an untold number of cases at doves and quail and crows and various other black birds.

I'm still fully capable of missing on any given target. Ya never get perfect but if ya practice properly you will get better and eventually the misses will become fewer and the hits more frequent.

Even on a skeet range where the theoritical lead never changes on a given bird it's still basically impossible to convey to a new shooter the proper lead until they've tried it enough times to figure it out for themselves. With live birds it's never the same but in time you do learn to get it right at least some of the time. 

[spruce]

Like everyone said, the only way to learn proper "lead" is to shoot at moving targets.  What that does is "program" your brain to automatically recognize the correct relationship of gun/target/speed/distance/etc to obtain a hit.
To be a good wingshot you have to let your subconscious be in control.  If you are thinking about the proper lead, or trying to aim like when shooting a rifle, they you will certainly miss.

Start out by mastering the basics first:  Feet about shoulder width apart, off-hand foot slightly forward, weight slightly more on forward foot.  Practice mounting the gun - bring the stock to your face, don't shoulder the gun and then lower your face to the stock.  Swing at the hips, not at the shoulders.  Don't EVER lift your head off the stock to look at what you shot at (if you do your swing will stop and you will miss).  Follow thru (continue your swing after you shoot).

You can become a good wingshot on your own, but the process will be MUCH quicker and you will probably be a better shot in the end if you get professional instruction.  And go to a range and start shooting skeet, trap, sporting clays, whatever is available locally.  There will be some guys there who will help you learn.  And don't worry about missing - everyone there started out just like you.

[lucky guy]

I've been going through this the last few years too and it takes lots of rounds like a couple people have said.  It's almost certain you'll improve faster if somebody helps you.  

I can tell you how it usually ends up for me on how much lead - more than you think. Sometimes way more than you think.    

A drill you can practice inside is mounting the gun and swinging the muzzle along the seam between the wall and ceiling, trains the body to swing the muzzle in a straight line rather than in an arc. 

[huntswithdogs]

Like the others have said, there's no set lead that will help ya. Got a passing bird? I like to start from behind the bird and swing thru, shooting as I pass his head. BUT YA GOTTA KEEP SWINGING! If ya stop or raise your head to watch it fall, it's gonna keep on flying.

I learned to swing and shoot by putting a tack in the wall of my gunroom. Check to make sure your shotgun is unloaded before doing this and use a snap cap! Start your swing from one corner and pull the trigger as you pass the tack without stopping. Sounds easy, huh? NOT!


HWD

[manatee1947]

lets look at technically what you must do, and how rapidly: say an average dove heading someplace purposefully, not with afterburners on, will be traveling roughly 40 mph +-, or about 48 fps, something like that. Say you are using a 1200 fps load, and shooting at 35 yards (105 feet), that means the shot pattern will arrive in approximately 1/12 second. 48 divided by 12= 4 feet the bird will travel between the time the powder ignites ant the pellets arrive, plus lock time, which is the time it takes for the hammer to fall once the trigger is pulled, plus the reaction time which is probably at least 1/2 second once you decide you are actually going to shoot, to pull the trigger.The bird, if it passes directly over you will be within range for approximately 4-6 seconds, less if it is at an angle.
So... you have about 4 seconds to identify for sure, estimate the range in feet the bird will be at when the gun actually goes off, divide that into 1200, get the correct distance the bird will have traveled, have the gun aimed there within +- 1/2 the pattern width. How good at math did you say you were?? 

[darkgael]

Ruffed Grouse. Pheasant. Woodcock.

Lead? What lead?
The dog stops. You know there's a bird in front of her nose. You walk up slowly, anticipating, and then there's an explosion that surprises you even though you'd expected it and a feather covered rocket shoots up and away impossibly fast and accelerating. You bring your gun up, mount it and point in the general direction of the bird, now at full speed, which has just flown behind a hemlock or a mountain laurel  or a huckleberry bush. Maybe you shoot through the foliage at a glimpse of feathers......but "lead"......by this time the reptile part of your brain is working and lead is just a word.
Learn about lead with clay birds....lots of clay birds. Do some preserve shooting.
And make sure that you have a shotgun that fits you properly - a gun that shoots exactly where you are looking when you haul on the trigger.
Pete

[JBlk]

Lead depends on the way you shoot.What works for one guy won't necessarly work for another.The choke of the weapon, your reflexes,the style of shooting and the load you are using will all infulence the outcome.When I miss doves I lenghten the lead that I am using and that usually solves the problem.Most of the leads that I use are much greater than all of the experts write about, but they work for me.I coached a friend on leading doves one time many years ago.I stressed the fact that if he was missing he should increase the lead.I heard him shoot once and it was quickly followed by two more shots.I hollered "did you get him" and he replied "no".I shouted "give it more lead" He replied "its sitting on a fencepost"So much for my lead theory.

[gcrank1]

Im pretty new to this scattergun thing, but when Ive 'seen' my miss it has always been behind. If I shoot where the critter is it aint there once the shot gets there (revelation), I gotta swing through and keep going until I aint pointed at it at all (hard for a deliberate rifle shooter to do!) and put the charge where the critter is going to 'run into it' when it gets there.
How much lead?,,,,,,,,well, how much does the quarterback lead the receiver on a pass?
Im pretty bad but workin' at at.
BTW, the best advice I had early on was when my friend said, " why did you stop swinging when you pulled the trigger?"

[S.E.Ak]

Even when burning 50,000 shells a year at trap and sporting I was happy with 30% on doves