AETHEIST SAYS NO TO PRAYER.

[powderman]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iS--TGTopSMStHG8KEuPcNPKRWmgD9IBIRTG0



Cancer ridden and dying he refuses to believe. His loss, satans gain. Sad. POWDERMAN. 

[joeinwv]

Did god give him cancer as a punishment for his non-belief?

[SHOOTALL]

I don't believe God gives us cancer , but will help us deal with it.

[powderman]

I don't believe God gives us cancer , but will help us deal with it.

True. It's still sad to see a dying man choose hell over Heaven. I hate to see satan win even one soul. POWDERMAN.  

[SHOOTALL]

I agree . This man still has time .

[BBF]

We had a predestination discussion before. Not everybody receives the gift of "Believe"

[SHOOTALL]

If we are predestin then why would life matter ? Why would choice even be in the lanuage ?

[powderman]

I'd love to see it discussed but we are not allowed to so I won't comment. POWDERMAN. 

[BBF]

If we are predestin then why would life matter ? Why would choice even be in the lanuage ?

So the passage  "the potter and the clay" is nonsense?

[SHOOTALL]

Nope , did not say that , the potter works with the clay but he never knows how it will turn out until it is in the fire . I feel God gives us life and a soul but allows us choice to accept him or not . If it was predetermined then please explain the need for forgivness ? Why do we punish bad people if they are only doing what God intended ? The Bible set forth the laws not man on punishment and forgivness. 

[BUGEYE]

looking back over my 67 years, I can see many of the forks in the road that I came to.  God knew which one I would choose but he left it up to me.  God doesn't make anybody do anything.
God is hoping the atheist will ask foregivness before it's too late.

[teamnelson]

Y'know this preacher would like nothing more than to revive biblical discussion here, but as GB has wisely noted, wherever 2 or more are gathered to discuss God, there'll be at least 3 opinions. So let's keep the thread out of that lane.

Pman, sadly that man will not be alone. The hardness of mens hearts is a terrible thing.

[MGMorden]

Y'know this preacher would like nothing more than to revive biblical discussion here, but as GB has wisely noted, wherever 2 or more are gathered to discuss God, there'll be at least 3 opinions. So let's keep the thread out of that lane.

With all due respect, that's rather difficult given the fact that the thread itself is religous in nature.

Regardless, the man doesn't believe.  That's his right.  When you die, there are at least a dozen different religions who believe that you have made a grave error and will suffer eternally for it.  How much concern do you really have that the Muslims, or the Hindus, or the Bhuddists, or the Sihks, etc, were right?  

As has been said before, Christians have a ton of gods they don't believe in.  Zeus, Shiva, Osiris, Thor, Guan-Yu, and hundreds of others.  Atheists simply believe in one less god than you do.

That's the beauty of religious freedom in this country.  We're all free to believe (or not believe) in whatever we want.  To this man your pleas that Satan has won are about is incredulous as if someone came up to you straight-faced and tried to convince you that without a proper offering to Jupiter you will spend all of your afterlife being punished by Pluto.  

Lets just agree to leave each other to our own beliefs.  Religious meddling and over-influence gets you nothing but a theocracy (and you need only look to the middle-east to see how that tends to work out).

[SteveHawaii]

I think we Christians should do the only thing we really can do for the poor lost soul - weep.

[Hooker]

No matter my house will be praying that God lays a heavy hand on this man's heart and that God's will be done in the matter of his health.

Pat

[powderman]

mgmorden. Only an aetheist would see this thread as religious. When I die, if I'm wrong I have lost nothing. When you die, and find you were wrong, you will have lost everything. No flame or criticism intended, just telling it like I see it. I feel sorry for you, and others like you. POWDERMAN. 

[MGMorden]

When I die, if I'm wrong I have lost nothing. When you die, and find you were wrong, you will have lost everything.

Only if you frame it as a Christianity vs Atheism only debate.  What if the Buddhists were right?  I guess if they were then we're both going to be spending the rest of time in Naraka (Buddhist equivalent of hell). Heck given that there are far more religions that you DON'T believe than ones that you do, then with that line of reasoning you're really playing the odds.  Lots of chances to be wrong and only one to be right.

Are you worried that they're really right?  Why not?  Your answer there is likely very similar to my answer regarding ALL of the different options.

As I've said before, as long as we can simply allow each other to believe what we want then we can coexist fine.  You believe as you want.  I'll take my chances and believe as I want.   

[powderman]

Are you worried that they're really right?  Why not?



No, I'm not. Salvation is only through Jesus Christ, just as he said. I have Jesus in my heart and as an aetheist you cannot know that feeling that Christians have. I don't know how to explain that wonderful feeling to a non Christian because there is nothing you can compare it to. I meant no disrespect to you in any way and would rather not say anymore because  I don't want to see this thread locked. I've tried for 5 min to post this and it says, CANNOT CONNECT TO DATABASE SERVER, this has been going on for several days. I'll try again a bit later.  Charlie. 

[powderman]

It took 15 min to get that to post. POWDERMAN. 

[MGMorden]

Are you worried that they're really right?  Why not?



No, I'm not. Salvation is only through Jesus Christ, just as he said. I have Jesus in my heart and as an aetheist you cannot know that feeling that Christians have. I don't know how to explain that wonderful feeling to a non Christian because there is nothing you can compare it to. I meant no disrespect to you in any way and would rather not say anymore because  I don't want to see this thread locked. I've tried for 5 min to post this and it says, CANNOT CONNECT TO DATABASE SERVER, this has been going on for several days. I'll try again a bit later.  Charlie. 

As I said, it's all a matter of belief.  I actually grew up in a Christian household and attended church virtually every Sunday until I was almost 18 (when I went to college).  In the end there came a point when I just realized that I don't believe this anymore.  Wasn't some tragic event that cause me to lose my faith, or decide that "God had forsaken me".  It was actually a much more gradual process. 

There are many who believe their own religions just as loyally as you believe yours.  To them, their choice is obvious because they believe themselves to be right.  That's the thing when you truly believe something: in your heart you always feel that everyone else is "wrong", but many never really contemplate the matter beyond that.

I'll refrain from discussing this further as I don't wish to get into a religious debate that's just going to get the thread locked.

[ironglow]

If we are predestin then why would life matter ? Why would choice even be in the lanuage ?

So the passage  "the potter and the clay" is nonsense?

  Scatter;
  I will assume you have watched a potter work his clay. Did you notice how he did it? Let's take a look...
 
1) He reaches into the source bin and pulls out a shapeless lump.

2) He places that lump where he will start shaping it,  in this case the potter's wheel.

3) He starts the wheel spinning and starts to shape the lump. He has a finished product in mind.

4) The wheel spins. With moistened hands, the potter tenderly lifts the lump, so as to shape it into a vessel.

5) If the lump responds well to the potter's urging and lifts, the potter then begins to gently urge the vessel into the pattern he has planned.

6) Perhaps the vessel will collapse before it is finished, the potter patiently starts with the same lump again.

7) The potter may try to mold something worthwhile from this lump several times in a row.

Eventually, if this particular lump won't properly respond, he will discard that lump, cast it out and start afresh with another.

9) The potter will not settle for  "half a vessel".

10) Every lump in the bin has a chance to become something beautiful..and the potter will give each many chances to become so.

[Junior1942]

It took 15 min to get that to post. POWDERMAN. 

Shame it didn't take 15 years.

[powderman]

It took 15 min to get that to post. POWDERMAN. 

Shame it didn't take 15 years.

junior. Thank you for all of your valuable input, this board is a much better place with you here, I'm sure we can now go forward with your help.  POWDERMAN. 

[BBF]

IG:
I understand your point.

 I do think the bible passage implied by me doesn't intent to survive this type of analytical examination as your post.
Add to this that the hands of this "potter" are  supposedly divine and the "lump" would obviously do/become as intended.

The camps on this are about as divided as back sliding or not. IMO

[ironglow]

IG:
I understand your point.

 I do think the bible passage implied by me doesn't intent to survive this type of analytical examination as your post.
Add to this that the hand of this "potter" are  supposedly divine and the "lump" would obviously do/become as intended.

The camps on this are about as divided as back sliding or not. IMO

  Scatter;
  In due respect, I don't know how much experience you have with Scriptural exegesis but each and every verse should be analytically examined. Of course, this requires a historical and cultural context. I once delivered a message on the shortest verse in the Bible (John 11:35) and it was very well received. It would not have been, had I just stuck with the words of the verse, repeated over and over. Any preacher worth his salt relies upon exegesis..the very word means 'examination and analysis', most often..both.

[SHOOTALL]

I don't think it wise to debate the Bible. Better to set an example and offer guidence to those willing to learn and follow . Better to show we belive by action than to get in a negative exchange of words . Someone not willing to believe may see your actions and peace and want the same but a dabate only makes them strengthen their stand.

[beerbelly]

There is no proof there is a god, there is no proof of the theory of evolution. I don't believe in either. Bring me proof and I will change my mind.
                                Beerbelly

[ironglow]

There is no proof there is a god, there is no proof of the theory of evolution. I don't believe in either. Bring me proof and I will change my mind.
                                Beerbelly

      You have been given the information right here..no excuses..so suit yourself..

[SHOOTALL]

We say we believe in a god and and others believe in a different god while others say they don't believe in any god. Yet none who don't believe define their definition of a god. Some believe God created all. I believe that. It is said we are created in his image and most think we look like God . Now consider this the people who study these things claim the earth and man were the result of energy in one form or another . They can tell us much but not where the energy came from to start with. So man has energy , man can think, man can forgive , love, show emotion If this is the image then God is the energy that all was created by and guided by. Many have seen the power of prayer heal someone . Is this power not the combined energy for all praying added to Gods power ? I often wonder if those who don't believe have this idea that some little person is sitting up in the clouds directing things is god not the energy in all of us . When we die the energy is gone our soul . Just a thought

[teamnelson]

This thread and the OP both serve to demonstrate one truth; the heart of man is made of stone. If the solution to the debates could be accomplished in intellectual acumen, or oratory excellence, everyone would already be in agreement; and would've been since times long past. But as the preacher says, if I can talk you into it, I can talk you out of it. No, it's more than a rational assent to an idea, or buying the sales pitch. I think its interesting to exchange the ideas, but all who do so should not have any expectation that their skill in defending their idea is sufficient to the task of making others embrace it as well.